# The Tea Party is not socially conservative my ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760 "2010-10-11T06:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/781 "2010-10-22T13:36:51Z")
That and goatees. ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/782 "2010-10-22T13:39:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > **Morella** ’s insulting me. Thanks for going to all that extra trouble, sweetie; it feels like I never left. You need to feel special…I can appreciate that. Everyone, please, take a moment to let Robot Arm know that he is special. My goodness, we have a lot of “special people” here, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/783 "2010-10-22T13:41:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is inconsistent with the Tea Party mantra of governing by the constitution, if you really don’t like it much. > > At least you admit that is what they want to do, instead of denying as you did before. The Tea Party can speak for itself. I’m not admitting or denying anything, just asking some questions that, evidently, are making people uncomfortable. I think that’s a good thing…we should all question our faith from time to time. _Croyez en rien!_ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/784 "2010-10-22T13:41:37Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > Discrediting the founding fathers is an important step forward toward Communism. So you are in total agreement with that noted socialist, [Benjamin Franklin](http://www.foundersquotes.com/Benjamin_Franklin/all-the-property-that-is-necessary-to-a-man-for-the-conservation-of-the-individual/): > [@](#): > > "All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of. > > "But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. > > “He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.” > > _Benjamin Franklin, Letter to Robert Morris, 1783_ ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/785 "2010-10-22T13:44:56Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > You and **Morella** deserve each other. Not true. **Morella** seems to think that the 60’s were some kind of Golden Age, before everything fell apart. OTOH ## **Starving Artist** seems to feel that the 50’s were the Golden Era, before everything fell apart in the 60’s. Those are diametrically opposed world views if I ever saw them and only one, at most, can be right. By rights, **Starving Artist** and **Morella** should be mortal enemies, and _no one_ deserves a mortal enemy. . ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/786 "2010-10-22T13:52:06Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > To say that Barry is a US citizen is, perhaps, arguable. No, it isn’t. It is a fact. Your assertions have no basis in reality. The only people who think he might not be a citizen are those who wish it were not so. This is delusional thinking, not an actual argument. > [@](#): > > To say that he is an American is just too much of a stretch. The man did not even know how many states there were in the union, for Christ’s sake. He was not raised in the US, he knows nothing about the US, but you elected him to run it. The man’s a respected Constitutional law scholar who seems to know a lot more about the US than you do. Your argument pretty much boils down to “I don’t like him, therefore he’s not a real American” which is fine if you’re in third grade but not in a court of law. > [@](#): > > And you call me stupid? The answer is in the question. ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/787 "2010-10-22T13:53:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So you are in total agreement with that noted socialist, [Benjamin Franklin](http://www.foundersquotes.com/Benjamin_Franklin/all-the-property-that-is-necessary-to-a-man-for-the-conservation-of-the-individual/): Total agreement? Where did you get that idea? I don’t think I’ve ever been in total agreement with anyone, on anything. If that ever happens, you can be damned sure that the thing is true. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/788 "2010-10-22T13:54:04Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > You need to feel special…I can appreciate that. Everyone, please, take a moment to let Robot Arm know that he is special. Oh, that would be too much of a hijack. Something like that really deserves its own thread. ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/789 "2010-10-22T13:54:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The man’s a respected Constitutional law scholar who seems to know a lot more about the US than you do. All 58 states? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/790 "2010-10-22T13:56:36Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > > [@Fear Itself](#): > > > > So you are in total agreement with that noted socialist, [Benjamin Franklin](http://www.foundersquotes.com/Benjamin_Franklin/all-the-property-that-is-necessary-to-a-man-for-the-conservation-of-the-individual/): > > Total agreement? Where did you get that idea? Because discrediting the founding fathers is an important step forward toward Communism. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/791 "2010-10-22T13:58:56Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > All 58 states? Well, you make a compelling argument based on a slip of the tongue he made during a long campaign. Clearly he must be a Kenyan. What’s your excuse for your continued and blatant ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/792 "2010-10-22T14:11:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Well, you make a compelling argument based on a slip of the tongue he made during a long campaign. Clearly he must be a Kenyan. What’s your excuse for your continued and blatant ignorance? [http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htm](http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/793 "2010-10-22T14:18:20Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > [http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htm](http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htm) Your excuse is that you get all your information from the political humor section of [About.Com](http://About.Com)? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/794 "2010-10-22T14:23:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Your excuse is that you get all your information from the political humor section of [About.Com](http://About.Com)? Well to be fair - her intellectual equal on this board does pretty okay getting his entire worldview and political beliefs from Leave It To Beaver. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/795 "2010-10-22T14:36:59Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > We’re at war with Muslims? Guy at the falafel place keeps making my order wrong, and I keep paying with wet bills. I thought it was just between us, though. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/796 "2010-10-22T14:53:31Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > Actually, the government will tax me on the money that I put into the equipment as well (assets are not expenses), and I spend as much on taxes as I do on fuel. \*\*To hire this person, I have to match his social security, **buy his health insurance, pay for workman’s comp, maintain employee services, etc., ad nauseum** \*\*(the more people you hire, the more the government makes you do). To put this person on staff, at, say, $40,000 a year, I have to spend nearly twice that. Couple that with the initial outlay of $100,000, which is reasonable for training, and I’m out $100,000 down, $80,000 a year for this asset, not including the money that I have to spend to buy equipment for him to use, which is NOT a tax deduction (remember, assest != expense). Now, assuming you’re not dumb enough to suggest deficit spending, which I really hope you’re not, those things on the pay-roll taxes would have to be paid no matter what. Let’s say you got your wish and didn’t have to pay for your employee’s health care, great, so you save a few thousand a year. But now the employee has to pay it, meaning the cost of an employee is going up a few thousand a year. Or you end up with a lot of sick employees that can’t afford medical treatment. If you take away social security, the individual employee is going to want more salary so that they can put away for retirement. Taxes do things, that you’d otherwise have to pay out of pocket for. But all you can see is Like Chinese windmills and welfare payments. Which would be a cool band name. You don’t even know how much is spent on that, and how much of you taxes goes towards that. And you still assume that they don’t do anything, because you’re not smart enough to know what windmills or welfare payments do. ETA Holy crap you guys generated 2 full pages over night? Isn’t there shipping that needs to get done? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/797 "2010-10-22T15:01:03Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > Please disprove a negative. You can’t even prove your own argument? What a shock. Here, I’ll hold your hand. First, you quote me the sections of the Constitution that say what powers Congress does and doesn’t have. Then you explain how those powers do or do not apply in the cases of the various examples you gave. > [@Cisco](#): > > Are we still assuming that Morella is female? Personally, I’m surprised that no one has called her out on her bullshit for having claimed be both of (a) Middle Eastern descent and (b) strictly European descent. > [@Morella](#): > > IF TAXES ARE LOWER, BUSINESSES CAN AFFORD TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE IF WE GET RID OF TAXES EVERYONE WILL HAVE FIVE JOBS YOU GUYS!!! > [@Morella](#): > > No, I do remember a lower divorce rate, though. I remember a time when people took marriage seriously, as a commitment, as my husband and I have. Yeah, those were great times. Women certainly had a choice about getting married, because there were so many job options. And if you were married, and your husband was abusive, it was so easy to get a divorce! And you’d totally be able to support yourself. And it’s so great that married women were never raped by their husbands! Ever! I’m sure that had nothing to do with the fact that a wife literally couldn’t say no to her husband, legally speaking. At all. > [@Morella](#): > > That is probably because you are ignoring the “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” part. I can’t believe no one else has addressed this yet. \*\*Everyone \*\*who is in the United States right now, other than foreign diplomats, is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” That includes people who are in the country illegally. If someone can be arrested for committing a crime here, that means they are “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” You fucking idiot, that’s what “diplomatic immunity” MEANS: that you are \*NOT \*“subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” **A Kenyan, or any other non-citizen, spending any time in the United States whatsoever, legally or illegally, is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” for the duration of the time that they are in our territory.** > [@mhendo](#): > > Either that, or you’re a very capable troll. No shit. ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/798 "2010-10-22T15:02:54Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Let’s say you got your wish and didn’t have to pay for your employee’s health care, great, so you save a few thousand a year. But now the employee has to pay it, meaning the cost of an employee is going up a few thousand a year. Or you end up with a lot of sick employees that can’t afford medical treatment. No, if I don’t have to buy health insurance, then it is the employees’ **choice** whether or not they buy it. Oh, I said that naughty C-word, didn’t I? I need to remember that choice has no place in the Communist agenda. > [@](#): > > If you take away social security, the individual employee is going to want more salary so that they can put away for retirement. Yes! And the employee can **choose** how to invest it, whereas a good slaveowner might take care of the matter for him. > [@](#): > > Taxes do things, that you’d otherwise have to pay out of pocket for. But all you can see is Like Chinese windmills and welfare payments. Which would be a cool band name. Cool band name, yes. Cool use of my hard-earned money, no. > [@](#): > > You don’t even know how much is spent on that, and how much of you taxes goes towards that. The welfare actually dwarfs the windmills, but those are just two examples of government waste anyway. I could look up more, or you could, but the welfare waste, alone, makes my point. [http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/02/2-billion-in-stimulus-spent-on-windmills-most-jobs-created-overseas/](http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/02/2-billion-in-stimulus-spent-on-windmills-most-jobs-created-overseas/) [http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Welfare.html](http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Welfare.html) > [@](#): > > And you still assume that they don’t do anything, because you’re not smart enough to know what windmills or welfare payments do. Windmills generate electricity, during certain periods of high winds. The rest of the time, they do nothing. Welfare supports people who don’t work. > [@](#): > > ETA Holy crap you guys generated 2 full pages over night? Isn’t there shipping that needs to get done? I’m just taking one more load this time, and then, unless someone else has a problem that requires my assistance, I’m off to Vegas for a couple of days, and maybe back to the house. You can be sure that I will be taking every opportunity to stop by and stop you guys from spreading Communist bullshit, though. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/799 "2010-10-22T15:02:55Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > The president isn’t even a US citizen. And there we go. Check and mate. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/800 "2010-10-22T15:11:34Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > Cool band name, yes. Cool use of my hard-earned money, no. The Founding Fathers never intended that you [get to keep every damn dollar you earn](http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch16s12.html): > [@](#): > > “The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People’s Money out of their Pockets, tho’ only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors’ Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell’d to pay by some Law.” > > _Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris_ > _25 Dec. 1783_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760.md?page=41)