# The Telegraph must have got their asses kicked by Melania's lawyers **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 26, 2019, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435 "2019-01-26T07:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/1 "2019-01-26T07:27:29Z")
I can’t recall having ever read a retraction quite this brutal: > [@](#): > > Following last Saturday’s (Jan 19) Telegraph magazine cover story “The mystery of Melania”, we have been asked to make clear that the article contained a number of false statements which we accept should not have been published. Mrs Trump’s father was not a fearsome presence and did not control the family. Mrs Trump did not leave her Design and Architecture course at University relating to the completion of an exam, as alleged in the article, but rather because she wanted to pursue a successful career as a professional model. Mrs Trump was not struggling in her modelling career before she met Mr Trump, and she did not advance in her career due to the assistance of Mr Trump. > > We accept that Mrs Trump was a successful professional model in her own right before she met her husband and obtained her own modelling work without his assistance. Mrs Trump met Mr Trump in 1998, not in 1996 as stated in the article. The article also wrongly claimed that Mrs Trump’s mother, father and sister relocated to New York in 2005 to live in buildings owned by Mr Trump. They did not. The claim that Mrs Trump cried on election night is also false. > > We apologise unreservedly to The First Lady and her family for any embarrassment caused by our publication of these allegations. As a mark of our regret we have agreed to pay Mrs Trump substantial damages as well as her legal costs. [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/26/melania-trump-apology/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/26/melania-trump-apology/) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/2 "2019-01-26T08:21:45Z")
UK libel laws are among the strongest in the world, and until a few years ago “libel tourism” was very common–that is, find the tiniest shred of a relationship with the UK, and file suit in their courts, because the filer is very likely to win. While the tourism aspect aspect has been improved, the situation is not any better when there is a genuine UK connection, as with a publication based there. The burden of proof rests with the journalist, not the one bringing the claim (as in the US). It’s such a poor state of affairs that the US has specific laws that prevent US courts from enforcing UK libel rulings. Unfortunately for them, the laws do not work in reverse: UK courts are obviously happy to enforce their rulings against losing UK defendants. What all this means is that there’s no reason to believe that Melania’s lawyers had a particularly strong case or even that The Telegraph’s claims were false. It’s just that defendants face a strong burden. The lawsuit wouldn’t have stood a chance in the US, particularly since Melania is a public figure. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/3 "2019-01-26T08:36:55Z")
And I think it’s better the UK way. The Telegraph made a series of claims about Mrs Trump and could not prove that that they were true. So they rightly got sued. Americans spew all sorts of nasty crap about political figures with seeming impunity and it’s not good for the general political discourse. Do note though that even in the UK truth is an absolute defence. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/4 "2019-01-26T18:10:56Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And I think it’s better the UK way. The Telegraph made a series of claims about Mrs Trump and could not prove that that they were true. So they rightly got sued. > > Americans spew all sorts of nasty crap about political figures with seeming impunity and it’s not good for the general political discourse. > > Do note though that even in the UK truth is an absolute defence. Is opinion actionable in the UK? One thing that struck me about the apology is that, at the very least, whether Melania’s father was “fearsome” seems to me to be an opinion, rather than statement of fact. Probably the same with whether her career was “successful” or “struggling”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/5 "2019-01-26T18:26:19Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > … What all this means is that there’s no reason to believe that Melania’s lawyers had a particularly strong case or even that The Telegraph’s claims were false. … You don’t think the Telegraph’s own detailed admission of false claims is a “reason to believe”? For a few example: “Mrs Trump met Mr Trump in 1998, not in 1996 as stated in the article.” “The article also wrongly claimed that Mrs Trump’s mother, father and sister relocated to New York in 2005 to live in buildings owned by Mr Trump. They did not.” Was the Telegraph publishing false claims then or are they publishing false claims now? I don’t see a scenario where they’re not #FakeNews at least once here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/6 "2019-01-26T18:33:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Americans spew all sorts of nasty crap about political figures with seeming impunity and it’s not good for the general political discourse. I acknowledge that the average conservative wouldn’t be able to survive a week if he had to live under British libel laws. With Trump it would be a day. And clearing these people out of politics would be a plus. But overall, I prefer free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/7 "2019-01-26T18:49:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I acknowledge that the average conservative wouldn’t be able to survive a week if he had to live under British libel laws. Nor would the average American Democrat. Doper Democrats would be hard pushed to last a day. > [@](#): > > But overall, I prefer free speech. Likewise, but with freedom comes responsibility. Just as people are free to make unsubstantiated claims and lie about other people, so they should be held responsible for those claims and lies. And the UK system upholds that; from what I’ve read, the US system does not. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/8 "2019-01-26T19:57:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You don’t think the Telegraph’s own detailed admission of false claims is a “reason to believe”? No. It’s obvious that they were ordered to print an apology with particular claims in it and that’s what they did. This isn’t the Telegraph re-researching the facts of their article; they’re just parroting whatever Melania’s lawyers gave the courts. Again, the burden is on the defendant. Melania doesn’t have to prove that they met in 1998. But The Telegraph would have to demonstrate proof with a high degree of certainty that the year was really 1996. Whatever their evidence was, it wasn’t enough. In the US, particularly with a celebrity, it’s enough to show that you had reasonable cause to believe a statement. Absolute proof is hard to come by, obviously. And then there’s **Falchion** ’s point that a few of the claims were more matters of opinion than fact. US laws have a number of “outs”: truth of the statement, reasonable cause, no actual malice, a matter of opinion, or so ridiculous that the public wouldn’t believe it. On this latter point, _Hustler_ claimed that Jerry Falwell had sex with his mom in an outhouse. That is a rather damaging claim and would seem to be a matter of fact and not opinion, but the courts ruled in favor of _Hustler_ because the claim was too silly to believe. I don’t actually have any idea (nor do I care) whether the Telegraph’s original claims, the apology claims, or something else are true. Just that there’s no particular reason to believe the apology due to the way the UK laws work. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/9 "2019-01-27T02:16:33Z")
I’m a bit surprised at the source; the **Telegraph** is a solidly conservative (Tory) Paper (or at least it has been when I last saw it). You would think it would not be interested in such a story (the _Daily Mirror_ or _The Sun_ would be my pick for such a story) or would have at least researched it better. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/10 "2019-01-27T02:50:43Z")
Fake News? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/11 "2019-01-27T02:51:55Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > I’m a bit surprised at the source; the **Telegraph** is a solidly conservative (Tory) Paper (or at least it has been when I last saw it). UK “Conservative” is wildly progressive by US standards. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/12 "2019-01-27T03:09:34Z")
I agree with **Quartz** ; some vigorous tightening of the American media and laws Brit-style could rein in a serious amount of fake news and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/13 "2019-01-27T04:18:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I agree with **Quartz** ; some vigorous tightening of the American media and laws Brit-style could rein in a serious amount of fake news and whatnot. They don’t appear to have prevented the Telegraph from publishing various false claims. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/14 "2019-01-27T08:22:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They don’t appear to have prevented the Telegraph from publishing various false claims. But it has resulted in them getting dinged for it. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/15 "2019-01-27T09:25:58Z")
And I always thought the UK laws allowed pretty much to go on- obviously wrong. I think a balance needs to be found- ours (Australia) are so stringent that people can hardly say “Smith is a two faced lying bastard” even if Smith is a two faced lying bastard. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/16 "2019-01-27T14:00:50Z")
I don’t see how “matter of opinion” is an “out.” If something is an opinion, then by definition it cannot be true or false so therefore not subject to libel laws. The UK law is horrific. Even the Commons’ Speaker’s Wife Bercow was held liable for this: > [@The Guardian](#): > > Her posting appeared two days after a Newsnight report last November wrongly implicated the former Conservative Party treasurer in allegations of sex abuse at Bryn Estyn children’s home in the 1970s and 1980s. > > Bercow denied that the tweet – “Why is Lord McAlpine trending? _Innocent face_” – was defamatory, but McAlpine, who has already received six-figure payouts from the BBC and ITV, said it pointed the finger of blame during a media frenzy. > > The judge agreed with McAlpine. Holy shit! If I was in the UK, I would not say anything about anything. In the above example, how is Bercow’s wife saying anything defamatory? IIRC, it would be as if when the Kavanaugh allegations came out, if I said, “Why is Christine Ford trending? \*innocent eyes” I could be held liable to Kavanaugh?? Am I misunderstanding this? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/17 "2019-01-27T14:29:10Z")
That depends upon how important and how rich you are. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/18 "2019-01-27T14:32:12Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > But it has resulted in them getting dinged for it. And reputable papers I the US print corrections all the time. They have an interest in their reputation and accurate reporting. Sometimes folks slip through the cracks, but I have very many journalists in my circle of friends and have worked as one from the photographicl side, and they are all serious about their ethics and reporting factually. I know some are scumbags and lie, but this is not the norm in my experience. This is what I find most annoying about the “Fake News” garbage. The folks who are really spreading Fake News don’t correct it, even when called on it. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/19 "2019-01-27T14:55:34Z")
Hmmm, interesting. So I have (shamefacedly) been following far too much royal gossip these days, all out of UK tabloids. How do they get away with reporting such wild speculations? Is it like in the US, where they find someone who happens to, say, dust the candelabras in Buckingham Palace once a week and then get him to say the Queen was replaced by a lifelike robot ten years ago, and then they can technically truthfully report, “Palace insider reports that Queen has been robot for ten years!” and all is well? Or are the laws actually stricter, but The Firm do not deign to sue, so tabloids know they can get away with crossing the line fairly blatantly? ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435/20 "2019-01-27T15:06:35Z")
The Royals will (hardly ever) sue, at any rate for libel, rather than privacy. They, or their advisors, take the view that such stuff is better ignored. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-telegraph-must-have-got-their-asses-kicked-by-melanias-lawyers/828435.md?page=2)