# The term "Godfather" for a mob boss **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 6, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400 "2018-07-06T17:08:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/1 "2018-07-06T17:08:32Z")
It’s ubiquitous now, but was any mob boss called a “Godfather” prior to the book and movie? Not a definitive source I know, but Joe Valachi doesn’t use the term anywhere (afaik) in The Valachi Papers, and he would know. As a bit of a vintage gangster buff I find its overuse a little annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/2 "2018-07-06T17:23:54Z")
Does he use _padrone_? It’s a general term of respect, now fallen into disuse partly because of the Mafia associations. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/3 "2018-07-06T17:31:48Z")
Mental Floss has this to say about it: > [@](#): > > The original meaning of the word, a male godparent, is from the 13th century, while around 1830 it also came to mean “an influential man.” As for godfather referring to a mafia leader, in a 1997 interview, Godfather author Mario Puzo claims to have invented the term: “It was never used for a criminal figure … The term didn’t exist before I used it.” > > The OED would beg to differ. While the Godfather novel was published in 1969, the OED includes a citation from a 1963 transcript of a government hearing: “Are you the godfather of any other member ‘made’ since then?” > **[10 Pieces of Mob Lingo You Should Know](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/68509/10-gangster-pieces-mob-lingo)** > > Whether you’re obsessed with 'GoodFellas' and 'The Godfather' or are binge-watching 'The Sopranos,' this list is for you. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/4 "2018-07-06T17:32:55Z")
I just looked- Valachi said that during his initiation ceremony he was given a “gombah”, Joe Bonnano, who he said was kind of his godfather. So he was a regular godfather, not Valachi’s boss, and not even in Valachi’s family (again, afaik). He may have used padrone, but I don’t recall. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/5 "2018-07-06T17:38:10Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I just looked- Valachi said that during his initiation ceremony he was given a “gombah”, Joe Bonnano, who he said was kind of his godfather. So he was a regular godfather, not Valachi’s boss, and not even in Valachi’s family (again, afaik). He may have used padrone, but I don’t recall. If he was “kind of his godfather” then he wasn’t “a regular godfather”, at least in the religious sense. The religious sense gets widened into what would in the US be called a “mentor”, though - which IIUC is what Valachi is talking about, as well as what that 1963 transcript talks about. And what family are you talking about, biological or criminal? The first isn’t any kind of requirement for a godparent-or-mentor; the second sounds strange. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/6 "2018-07-06T17:52:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > If he was “kind of his godfather” then he wasn’t “a regular godfather”, at least in the religious sense. The religious sense gets widened into what would in the US be called a “mentor”, though - which IIUC is what Valachi is talking about, as well as what that 1963 transcript talks about. > > And what family are you talking about, biological or criminal? The first isn’t any kind of requirement for a godparent-or-mentor; the second sounds strange. I meant regular as opposed to crime boss, and crime family as opposed to his biological family. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/7 "2018-07-06T19:14:12Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I just looked- Valachi said that during his initiation ceremony he was given a “gombah”, Joe Bonnano, who he said was kind of his godfather. So he was a regular godfather, not Valachi’s boss, and not even in Valachi’s family (again, afaik). He may have used padrone, but I don’t recall. > [@Nava](#): > > If he was “kind of his godfather” then he wasn’t “a regular godfather”, at least in the religious sense. The religious sense gets widened into what would in the US be called a “mentor”, though - which IIUC is what Valachi is talking about, as well as what that 1963 transcript talks about. [“Goombah”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goombah) is derived from the southern Italian _cumpa/cumpari_, which is in turn derived from _compare_, which refers to the godfather/godson relationship. Now it generally refers to any friendly relationship (although it is also used derogatorially to refer to Italians). Valachi seems to have been using it to refer to a godfather like relationship, even if this person might not have been his actual godfather in the religious sense. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-godfather-for-a-mob-boss/817400/8 "2018-07-06T19:36:03Z")
As an aside, the first reference to a mob ‘Godfather’ in a movie was in[Pocketful of Miracles](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055312/), with Sheldon Leonard playing the mobster. > [@](#): > > This film contains perhaps the earliest Hollywood use of “godfather” as a synonym for mob boss. Some experts cite mob informer Joe Valachi as the originator of the term in the popular vernacular, but this film predates his Congressional testimony by two years.