# the term 'Sorcerer's Stone' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 30, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148 "2006-01-30T01:37:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Serket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Serket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serket)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/1 "2006-01-30T01:37:36Z")
Was the term ‘Sorcerer’s Stone’ made up by J.K. Rowling? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/2 "2006-01-30T01:47:01Z")
There was a story by that name in 1921, written by Beatrice Grimshaw. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/3 "2006-01-30T01:50:07Z")
The original was titled philosopher’s stone. Which has a long history. So if it was made up I think it was by her American publishers. I could not find any thing that did not refer to the book or movie with the first hundred or so search results. Poor Bea was not among them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/4 "2006-01-30T01:50:33Z")
Even if it weren’t for the 1921 story, the term wasn’t made up by J. K. Rowling. In its current incarnation, it was made up by some editor at Scholastic Books, who didn’t think that American kids would know what the Philosopher’s Stone was. Not that they’d have a clue about the Sorcerer’s Stone, either, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/5 "2006-01-30T02:07:35Z")
It was the American publishers who used the term in the title, not Rowling. Rowling’s original title for the book, which was used in the [U.K.](http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0747532745/026-8096335-1264413), [Canada](http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/default.asp?Lang=en&Section=books&Ntt=harry+potter+philosopher%27s+stone&Submit_Search.x=10&Submit_Search.y=8), and elsewhere in the English-speaking world, was _Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone._ The Philosopher’s Stone was a well-known concept from alchemy. The idea was that the Philospher’s Stone could be used to assist in alchemical transformations, particularly turning lead into gold. According to [Wikipediea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher's_stone), the stone also came to be association with mystical/spiritual concepts of self-purification. It was called the “Philosopher’s” stone because the term came into use when “philosopher” had a more general meaning that it does today - sort of a seeker after knowledge of all sorts, including the natural sciences. When the book came out in the U.S., the title was changed. One explanation I saw (dunno if correct) was the U.S. publishers thought that the term “philosopher’s stone” was too arcane and high-falutin’ for a kids book, so they dumbed it down to “sorcerer’s stone”, thereby missing out on a great opportunity to help kids become familiar with an interesting bit of information about the development of knowledge and science in western history. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/6 "2006-01-30T02:36:54Z")
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_the_Philosopher%27s_Stone) says that it’s because the publishers wanted to make it explicit that it was a fantasy novel. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/7 "2006-01-30T02:40:46Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_the_Philosopher%27s_Stone) says that it’s because the publishers wanted to make it explicit that it was a fantasy novel. Because the kid flying on a broomstick with a wand in his hand just doesn’t lay that out clearly enough… ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/8 "2006-01-30T03:03:24Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > > [@Rysto](#): > > > > Wikipedia says that it’s because the publishers wanted to make it explicit that it was a fantasy novel. > > Because the kid flying on a broomstick with a wand in his hand just doesn’t lay that out clearly enough… Yes, the reason given by both \*\*Chronos \*\* and \*\*Northern Piper \*\* sounds more likely. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/9 "2006-01-30T03:03:42Z")
It’s worth pointing out that there really was an alchemist named Nicholas Flamel, who (as most of them were) was looking for the Philosopher’s Stone. Me, I first read about the Philosopher’s Stone in and old issue of **Justice League of America**. If America’s kids _really_ don’t know what the Philosopher’s Stone is (and I haven’t seen any evidence that they don’t), maybe it’s because they aren’t reading enough comics. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/10 "2006-01-30T03:13:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Me, I first read about the Philosopher’s Stone in and old issue of **Justice League of America**. If America’s kids _really_ don’t know what the Philosopher’s Stone is (and I haven’t seen any evidence that they don’t), maybe it’s because they aren’t reading enough comics. Nowadays, instead of it’s being in comics, it’s in popular novels. Oh, wait, no it’s not – publishers are too scared that kids might learn something. Good thing the comics publishers weren’t so worried years ago, or you might just now be finding out what it is. Lord knows when today’s kids will be exposed to it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/11 "2006-01-30T03:24:13Z")
It’s because of a comic book story about micro-organisms that grew to enormous size and were consuming the world’s supply of oxygen that I began reading Poe. At the age of eight. ‘But see, amid the mimic rout A crawling shape intrude! A blood-red thing that writhes from out The scenic solitude! It writhes!- it writhes!- with mortal pangs The mimes become its food, And seraphs sob at vermin fangs In human gore imbued.’ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/12 "2006-01-30T03:27:51Z")
Myself, I learned about it from D&D sourcebooks. Not knowing the history of the title at the time I read Harry Potter, I was puzzled by the title. About halfway through, when Hermione finally describes it, I exclaimed out loud “Why didn’t they just call it the Philospher’s Stone?”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/13 "2006-01-30T03:41:25Z")
medieval nitpick: Traditionally, it is most often the philosophers’ stone (lapis philosophorum). JK Rowling made it philosopher’s stone, singular philosopher, which is even followed by the Latin translation (_Harrius Potter & Philosophi Lapis_). I believe the shift for “philosopher’s” (original) \> “sorcerer’s” (American) was indeed motivated by marketing concerns, as everyone else has already said. ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/14 "2006-01-30T04:18:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not knowing the history of the title at the time I read Harry Potter, I was puzzled by the title. About halfway through, when Hermione finally describes it, I exclaimed out loud “Why didn’t they just call it the Philospher’s Stone?”. Exactly my reaction. It soured my opinion of Rowling, too, as I thought she was trying to pretend like she invented something, instead of just using a concept that had been part of our culture for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/15 "2006-01-30T04:46:45Z")
As others have very well explained, it was a term from alchemy that became part of the Engish cultural heritage, a mysterious substance with transforming properties. In George Herbert’s famous devotional poem “Teach me, my God and King” the fourth verse deals with the transforming nature of God in the world by use of that metaphor. > [@](#): > > This is the famous stone > that turneth all to gold; > for that which God doth touch and own > cannot for less be told. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/16 "2006-01-30T21:58:28Z")
I first heard about the Philosopher’s Stone in a 50s comic book, probably “The Fabulous Philosopher’s Stone” from Uncle Scrooge #10. ---
**Author:** ![tygerbryght](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@tygerbryght](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygerbryght)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/17 "2006-02-01T05:48:33Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > As others have very well explained, it was a term from alchemy that became part of the Engish cultural heritage, a mysterious substance with transforming properties. In George Herbert’s famous devotional poem “Teach me, my God and King” the fourth verse deals with the transforming nature of God in the world by use of that metaphor. On [bartleby.com](http://bartleby.com), it comes as the 6th (and final) stanza. I wasn’t familiar with it, so I thank you for the mention. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/18 "2006-02-01T12:18:45Z")
Is it just pure ego/stubborness that Scholastic doesn’t own up to their error and rename any subsequent pressings to the correct title? I fucking hate marketing departments. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/19 "2006-02-01T14:52:32Z")
Young wizard Harry Potter comes into possession of a treasure map. He must fly his broomstick to Columbia to rescue the kidnapped Hermione Granger by surrendering the map to agents of Voldemort. But the map is to the location of the Philosopher’s Stone! Coming soon: **Harry Potter: Romancing The Philosopher’s Stone** ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148/20 "2006-02-01T15:37:48Z")
I had always thought that the term “Philosopher Stone” was used to describe the Lodestone (magnetite) in ancient Greece. The magnetic properties of Lodestone were veiwed as mystical in origin. I cannot find any connection between the two in searching the web, though. I wonder where my memories derive from? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-term-sorcerers-stone/342148.md?page=2)