# the terrorist threat -- who sowed the seeds? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538 "2002-05-06T14:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crimsonshriek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@crimsonshriek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crimsonshriek)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/1 "2002-05-06T14:09:23Z")
With the ‘awakening’ to the terrorist threats today western nations forget that for decades they have been havens to most organizations labeled terrorist outfits today. The various jihadi organizations active in Kashmir/Pakistan/Afghanistan today used to be headquartered in UK and the US. The western nations provided safe havens to these organizations under the guise of providing support to ‘freedom movements’ in their homelands; often disregarding the violent means employed by these outfits. The justification was that given their stance these outfits would not get justice from the judicial systems of the countries they operated in. Terrorists would kill innocent civilians in thousands and conveniently escape to the western nations. The outfits thus know, most of the western countries that provided them safe havens, inside out with safe houses, financing channels, forgers etc. The western nations all along were hence sharpening a two edge sword whose wielder has now gone berserk. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/2 "2002-05-06T14:21:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by crimsonshriek \* > With the ‘awakening’ to the terrorist threats today western nations forget that for decades they have been havens to most organizations labeled terrorist outfits today. Which organizations? Please show us some cites from reliable sources (not [ConspiracyTheory.com](http://ConspiracyTheory.com) or [5GuysinTheirMomsBasement.net](http://5GuysinTheirMomsBasement.net)) that indicate which terrorist organizations have been knowingly been given safe haven within the borders of the US or the UK by their respective governments. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/3 "2002-05-06T14:23:19Z")
That’s a lot of unsupported assertions there, cs. How about some cites? ---
**Author:** ![crimsonshriek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@crimsonshriek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crimsonshriek)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/4 "2002-05-06T14:37:17Z")
check out this site for LTTE a sessionist organization operating in tamilnadu [http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sydney/ltte.htm](http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sydney/ltte.htm) another one: [http://www.sinhaya.com/march\_report.html](http://www.sinhaya.com/march_report.html) jehadi organisations: [http://www.hvk.org/articles/1001/103.html](http://www.hvk.org/articles/1001/103.html) [http://www.indian-express.com/ie20011008/nat6.html](http://www.indian-express.com/ie20011008/nat6.html) this is hurried job, i shall shortly provide detailed info and links UK was also the headquarters of Khalistan Liberation Front responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians in the fight for secession of punjab. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/5 "2002-05-06T14:41:55Z")
I wonder if the OP is confusing the problems in K-Pak with the Kurdish homeland movement. There was a Kurd satellite [television station](http://www.ib.be/med/med-tv/impact/protest.htm) operating out of London for a time. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/6 "2002-05-06T14:49:24Z")
Nope, guess not. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/7 "2002-05-06T15:42:17Z")
Unless I’ve missed something, I still haven’t seen anything to indicate that the UK GOVERNMENT is doing anything other than tollerating these groups maintaining offices within the UK. That does not mean the government is providing them with safehouses, money and so on. In a country like the US or UK, it is not that easy to summarily ban a group unless people in that group can be tied to terrorist acts. After all, there have been and still are radical groups here in the US. Would you say then that America supports the KKK, Black Panters or militias from Montana? ---
**Author:** ![crimsonshriek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@crimsonshriek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crimsonshriek)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/8 "2002-05-06T18:17:44Z")
yes, but KKK, Black Panthers etc etc are still pursued and prosecuted by the goverment. whereas inspite of providing proof and demanding extradition men belonging to the outfits mentioned are not extradited since ‘they haven’t committed any crimes on our (UK/US) soil’ i did not say the government was providing safe houses money etc but that in the course of their stay the groups have established networks and have set up safe houses and ways and means of transferring money. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/9 "2002-05-06T18:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by crimsonshriek \* > \*\*yes, but KKK, Black Panthers etc etc are still pursued and prosecuted by the goverment. \*\* Well, I don’t think there are too many Black Panthers around any more, but neither they nor members of the KKK are prosecuted simply for being members of said groups. If individual members commit crimes, they are prosecuted for those crimes, but in the USA you have the right to be a hateful racist asshole if you want to, as long as you don’t break any laws. Personal anecdote: I once attended a counter-rally in Washington DC where the KKK was scheduled to march up Constitution avenue. There were squads of cops in full riot gear out to protect the Klan and defend their right to march. (They ended up not marching though, as the crowd was rather large, and things _would_ have gotten ugly.) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/10 "2002-05-06T19:14:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by crimsonshriek \* > i did not say the government was providing safe houses money etc but that in the course of their stay the groups have established networks and have set up safe houses and ways and means of transferring money. \*\* But you implied that the US and the UK either supported these terrorists groups or knowingly allowed them to operate within their borders. ---
**Author:** ![crimsonshriek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@crimsonshriek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crimsonshriek)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/11 "2002-05-07T09:38:49Z")
US and UK allowed these organisations to be based in the countries but the groups operated in Afghanisat/Pakistan/India and Sri Lanka ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/12 "2002-05-07T10:48:36Z")
Another thing to keep in mind is _when_ the support was given. One of the big criticisms of the US a few months ago was “You helped create the Taliban!” or somesuch (provided money and resources to Afghani groups back in the '80s to allow them to fight the Russians). The obvious flaw with that logic, of course, is that _back then_ they weren’t flying planes into our buildings… after that, the group evolved into something a bit less ideal. (Note: It’s 3:47 AM and I’m going off of memory… I’m sure I got some of the above details wrong. I hope my point wasn’t lost, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorist-threat-who-sowed-the-seeds/107538/13 "2002-05-07T10:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\* > (not [ConspiracyTheory.com](http://ConspiracyTheory.com) or [5GuysinTheirMomsBasement.net](http://5GuysinTheirMomsBasement.net)) \*\* Excuse me **msith537** , but your comment almost made me start a pit thread. Those mom’s who own those basements make a mean carrot cake and I will not stand by while you insult their integrity. 😉 Marc