# The terrorists win one - thanks, Manila **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448 "2004-07-16T17:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/1 "2004-07-16T17:31:07Z")
Look, I’ve been against the Iraq war since the beginning. And, I believe (to paraphrase Mel Brooks), that George Bush is the leading asshole in the country. But now you’ve sent all terrorists a message that if you kill and kidnap enough people, eventually governments will start capitulating to your demands. I predict your action of an early troop withdrawal will only make matter worse, much worse, in fact. So thanks, guys; I’m sure we can look forward to a lot more kidnappings and beheadings. :wally ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/2 "2004-07-16T17:32:14Z")
Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/3 "2004-07-16T17:39:57Z")
Come on, it’s all over the news. [This enough?](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=1&u=/nm/20040716/ts_nm/iraq_dc_358) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/4 "2004-07-16T17:41:13Z")
> **[Breaking News, World News and Video from Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/)** > > News, analysis from the Middle East & worldwide, multimedia & interactives, opinions, documentaries, podcasts, long reads and broadcast schedule. Giving in to terrorist demands only emboldens them. The Philippines did us no favors. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/5 "2004-07-16T17:42:27Z")
> [@Running with Scissors](#): > > eventually governments will start capitulating to your demands. I predict your action of an early troop withdrawal will only make matter worse, much worse, in fact. So thanks, guys; I’m sure we can look forward to a lot more kidnappings and beheadings. Yeah, god forbid that a sovergn government defy the United States in an attempt to do what its citizens want. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/6 "2004-07-16T17:43:53Z")
Legion, what do you need a cite for? You do understand that Manila has pulled out early, right? Now, if you know this, is it really that much of a leap in logic that there will be more kidnappings? I really don’t think so. I see an increase of kidnappings, and an increase in governments giving in to the demands of the kidnappers. No cite necessary as it is a logical conclusion based on the current goings-on in Iraq. I’d also like to add to the OPs comments. I am also 100% averse to the war in Iraq and have been since it began. I don’t think we belong there, are wasting time money and blood resources, and think we are a hinderance to the country as a whole. BUT, I feel that the governments that deployed forces to Iraq owe some duty to the rest of the forces there to not give in to the demands of the kidnappers. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/7 "2004-07-16T17:47:31Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Yeah, god forbid that a sovergn government defy the United States in an attempt to do what its citizens want. If they had been doing what their citizens wanted, they probably never would have gone in in the first place. IIRC the only country where a majority of the population was in favor of sending troops to Iraq (for whatever purpose) was the good 'ol US. ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/8 "2004-07-16T17:49:46Z")
If that was the case, then the US is also guilty of giving into Terrorist demands. After all, we were the ones who pushed for a cease fire with Zarqawi. So, I guess we showed them that if they fight hard enough agaist us, we will give in to their demands. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/9 "2004-07-16T17:56:16Z")
Wait. So if they kill people to get troops to withdraw, it’s wrong. But if we (we as in the “good guys”) kill/rape them to get them to back down, we’re in the right? I think the US should be the one to “finish” this war since they started it. I don’t even know why Japan/Spain/Bulgaria/Philippines are even involved. I’m all for these governments to leave with or without pressure from hostages being killed. They’re not only giving in from the terrorists. They’re also listening to their citizens. If they want to keep being elected, they have to obey what their voting public wants. [puts on fireproof suit] ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/10 "2004-07-16T17:58:11Z")
> [@Running with Scissors](#): > > IIRC the only country where a majority of the population was in favor of sending troops to Iraq (for whatever purpose) was the good 'ol US. And that was probably based on all the proven terrorist ties between Iraq and Al Quidea (or however it is spelt today), not to mention all those WMDs that were a clear and present danger to America. ---
**Author:** ![pilzner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pilzner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilzner)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/11 "2004-07-16T18:10:17Z")
Does anyone else see actions like this as sorta debunking the whole “coalition of the willing” thing? ( I mean the pulling out, not the kill and kidnap part). Surely, if all it takes is a violent public casualty to get a country to withdraw troops, it can’t seem like their support was really their to begin with, right? I agree, I think this is horrible news and is only going to embolden certain folk to try it a dozen more times. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/12 "2004-07-16T18:29:17Z")
> [@MrTuffPaws](#): > > If that was the case, then the US is also guilty of giving into Terrorist demands. Well sure. Has everyone forgotten how we paid Abu Sayyaf $3 million bucks to release those christian hostages back in 2002? > [@](#): > > The U.S. government reportedly facilitated a ransom payment last week to Muslim extremists for the release of an American missionary couple, but the two have not been freed. > According to Fox News, unidentified sources said up to $3 million – from private money – was paid to Abu Sayyaf guerrillas, who have been holding Paul Burnham and his wife, Gracia, for the last 10 months. Speaking to reporters yesterday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld would not comment on the revelation, nor would officials with the FBI or the U.S. State Department, Fox News reported. [Not a great cite, but if you want better look it up for yourself. I don’t feel like digging just now.](http://www.tvbn.com/index.html?http://www.tvbn.com/Charisma/CharismaNewsUpdate20020326.html) While [bin Laden normally funds Abu Sayaf](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/09/28/gen.phil.sayaff/), I’m sure that they’re both grateful for this American contribution to the war on terror. I don’t like the fact that the Philippinos are pulling out over this kidnapping, but we’ve no right to get all holier than though over it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/13 "2004-07-16T18:33:40Z")
This is bad for most of us, but REALLY bad for the Filipinos. It’s not secret that the US (and most other countries) will not give in to these types of demands. The the Filipino government has just demonstrated that it does. If you want that government to do something, just kidnap one of its citizens and threaten to kill them. I hope it does not embolden the terrorists to use this tactic more often on other countries-- it’s already bad enough as it is. ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/14 "2004-07-16T18:41:29Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Legion, what do you need a cite for? You do understand that Manila has pulled out early, right? Now, if you know this, is it really that much of a leap in logic that there will be more kidnappings? I honestly didn’t know. I got off a 72 work week (nights) on Thursday morning and have been either sleeping or vegging in front of the telly watching the Open since then. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/15 "2004-07-16T18:57:48Z")
I don’t see Manila removing personnel as capitulation so much as something they really wanted to do anyway. They were going to remove these folks anyway in a month, right? Their citizens were against this whole thing; might as well kill two birds with one stone (so to speak). ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/16 "2004-07-16T19:01:17Z")
The Philipines had only a token force in Iraq, if I remember correctly. I believe they were non-combatants, so it isn’t as if their absence will hurt the US very badly. In my view, the Philipine government did exactly the right thing, and we (the USA) should do exactly the same. We should first announce that we will do no more work at restoring the things we broke. We should no longer engage in combat operations, except in self defense. We should tell the Iraquis, good guys and bad, to meet, hash things out, and let us know what they want to do. If they want to rebuild what we broke, we should fund the repair and let them hire whoever they want to hire to accomplish the rebuilding. They might even prefer to do it themselves instead of having things dictated to them—they’ve probably had a belly full of that. If they want to leave things broken, so be it. If they want a mosque on every corner, let them have it their way. If they want to fight a bloody civil war for the next fifty years, let them get on with it. Once those issues are settled, we should apologize profusely for having wrecked their country on the flimsiest of reasons, and depart _en masse_. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/17 "2004-07-16T19:06:31Z")
> [@legion](#): > > I honestly didn’t know. I got off a 72 work week (nights) on Thursday morning and have been either sleeping or vegging in front of the telly watching the Open since then. :smack: Youch, BTDT, I forgive you. 😛 Sam ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/18 "2004-07-16T19:09:15Z")
Let’s chastise a government that has a tangible fear of a populist coup and a president that barely won a very recent election for conceding to the overwhelming will of its populace. After all, heaven forbid a government listen to the will of its people. Of course, now that the Philippines 51 troops are out, no way the coalition can hold together. The government of the Philippines has trouble enough in its south with Abu Sayaf and other terrorist organizations. Sending their already-limited troops to Iraq served NO purpose other than to pad the coalition’s list of countries. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out the U.S. paid for the deployment, _but I have no proof nor have I read of that._ Whether you believe the war is right or wrong (ftr, I say wrong and I said wrong even when Mr. President was waxing so eloquently about Qaeda ties and WMDs, but withdrawing at this point would probably be even worse), it’s the U.S.’ war, not the world’s. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/19 "2004-07-16T19:10:05Z")
> [@badmana](#): > > But if we (we as in the “good guys”) kill/rape them to get them to back down, we’re in the right? Rape? Excuse me, did you say _RAPE_!? Jesus, man, even Michael Moore doesn’t make insinuations as to the US doing that kind of evil. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448/20 "2004-07-16T19:19:44Z")
In response to the OP, I can’t imagine what the Philipine government should have done. “Hey, let’s keep our folks in Iraq, endangering their lives so the United States can get rich off Iraqi oil!”… er, no. > [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Rape? Excuse me, did you say RAPE!? > > Jesus, man, even Michael Moore doesn’t make insinuations as to the US doing that kind of evil. How about [sodimizing young boys](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room//index.html#hersh) (reference stolen from [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5072805&postcount=99))? > [@](#): > > “Some of the worst things that happened you don’t know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib … The women were passing messages out saying ‘Please come and kill me, because of what’s happened’ and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It’s going to come out.” No matter how much Michael Moore’s annoying the radical right, as time goes by it looks like he’s been treating them with kid gloves… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-terrorists-win-one-thanks-manila/255448.md?page=2)