# The? TheTheTheThe ... Sometimes it's just "the" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138 "2008-06-16T19:09:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/41 "2008-06-17T20:40:17Z")
I consider [this](http://www.woodstick2007.com/images/RingoPhoto.jpg) definitive proof that the band name is **The Beatles**. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/42 "2008-06-17T20:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I consider [this](http://www.woodstick2007.com/images/RingoPhoto.jpg) definitive proof that the band name is **The Beatles**. [/QUOTE] If you go by that, the band’s full name is Ludwig The Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/43 "2008-06-17T21:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew] If you go by that, the band’s full name is Ludwig The Beatles. [/QUOTE] The Ludwig is silent. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/44 "2008-06-17T22:03:05Z")
Data point: I’m editing some documents that are on their way to the Executive Board of UNDP, so you can imagine how important funding partners’ names are (especially as these deal with what the organization has done with the funds). This very issue had popped up, and I sent the following email on June 6[sup]th[/sup] (bolding is in both email and their response): > [@me](#): > > Good afternoon, > > Would you please forward this question to someone in your communications department? > > In referring to the World Bank in formal literature, is the ‘The’ to be included, and should it be capitalized (assuming the indefinite article isn’t grammatically required)? That is, which of the following is correct: > According to \*\*World Bank sources, \*\* the nation is improving. > According to \*\*The World Bank sources, \*\* the nation is improving. > According to \*\*the World Bank sources, \*\* the nation is improving. > > Thank you very much for your time, > > Rhythmdvl Here is the reply I just received: > [@The World Bank](#): > > Dear Sir, > > Please note that the following is the correct form: > > According to **The World Bank sources** , the nation is improving. > > Sincerely, > > Public Information Services Team > The World Bank Sometimes it pays to be pedantic! Now, can anyone help me remember some movie/television scene where a few kids are arguing over whether it’s Smokey Bear or Smokey the Bear? All I can (vaguely) remember is the line “but it’s not Super the Man!”. Rhythm ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/45 "2008-06-17T22:50:21Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] The Ludwig is silent. [/QUOTE] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/46 "2008-06-18T00:58:54Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I consider [this](http://www.woodstick2007.com/images/RingoPhoto.jpg) definitive proof that the band name is **The Beatles**. [/QUOTE] There’s really nothing definitive about that. (1) The “the” is entirely in small caps, so it tells you nothing about proper capitalization (2) It’s a logo. Proper capitalization is not dictated by logos. You don’t write “SONY” or “FORD” in all caps just because they appear in all caps on the logos appearing Sony and (some) Ford products. (3) It’s a display. Proper capitalization is not dictated by displays. (4) It’s a label. It’s shorthand for saying “The people you see playing up here are the Beatles.” It doesn’t say anything about a proper name, or whether there is any such thing as a “proper” name when it comes to an entity like a band. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/47 "2008-06-18T03:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] There’s really nothing definitive about that. (1) The “the” is entirely in small caps, so it tells you nothing about proper capitalization (2) It’s a logo. Proper capitalization is not dictated by logos. You don’t write “SONY” or “FORD” in all caps just because they appear in all caps on the logos appearing Sony and (some) Ford products. (3) It’s a display. Proper capitalization is not dictated by displays. (4) It’s a label. It’s shorthand for saying “The people you see playing up here are the Beatles.” It doesn’t say anything about a proper name, or whether there is any such thing as a “proper” name when it comes to an entity like a band. [/QUOTE] I was unclear in making my point. It was not about whether “The” should be capitalized, it was about the name of the group. They were The Beatles, not Beatles with a “the” stuck in front for grammatical purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/48 "2008-06-18T07:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I was unclear in making my point. It was not about whether “The” should be capitalized, it was about the name of the group. They were The Beatles, not Beatles with a “the” stuck in front for grammatical purposes. [/QUOTE] Maybe I’m being dim but please help me understand why both of the following sentences are correct: I own six Beatles albums. I own three Weezer albums. but to say it this way would require using “the” in one place and not the other: I own six albums by the Beatles. I own three albums by Weezer. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/49 "2008-06-18T10:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=Kolak of Twilo] Maybe I’m being dim but please help me understand why both of the following sentences are correct: I own six Beatles albums. I own three Weezer albums… [/QUOTE] In the first sentence, you are using an abreviated form of their name. In the second sentence, I don’t care. WTF cares about Weezer? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/50 "2008-06-24T20:27:58Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] Even when “The” is part of the title? Like The Stand, The Wizard of Oz, The Godfather, etc. etc.? [/QUOTE] Or The Hague? ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/51 "2008-06-24T20:56:55Z")
I’d like to visit The Gambia someday. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/52 "2008-06-25T00:28:05Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Or The Hague? [/QUOTE] Don’t be vague, it’s always been The Hague. As for the Beatles, I agree with **the** OP. Lower-case that Shit. 🙂 **Colophon** (newspaper copyeditor (when not on the Dope)) ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138/53 "2008-06-25T05:54:11Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] The Ludwig is silent. [/QUOTE] I doubt it, or The Ringo wouldn’t have had much use for it. –wolfstu, chilling out in The Netherlands [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thethethethe-sometimes-its-just-the/453138.md?page=2)