# The Thing That Wouldn't Leave (Nanny) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 28, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880 "2014-06-28T19:19:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/41 "2014-07-01T03:31:16Z")
Yeah, the thing holding me back from siding with the family entirely here is my lack of knowledge of rental law. Now, I don’t live in California, but if I did, I think I’d be loathe to change the law if the law that prevents them from kicking her out immediately is the same law that prevents my landlord from kicking me out of my apartment tomorrow if he finds someone willing to pay twice as much rent. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/42 "2014-07-01T03:37:17Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Everyone is aware that the law is making it difficult for the family to evict the nanny. That’s what the thread is about. What we are saying is that the law is wrong in this case. And also just marveling at a crazy person and feeling sympathy for the poor family. I don’t think the law is wrong in this case mostly for reasons similar to this, and I’m stealing from Yogsouth here: 'One of the stories said that the cops can’t do anything because such a dispute is a civil matter. I really don’t agree with that but I guess it protects more people than take advantage of it" What I am arguing with is the extrapolation that their is something inherently flawed about tenants having rights such as having to be served notice or having a say in court. In this case things are messy, but I do not feel a ton of sympathy for the family at the moment because I feel too many things are in question. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/43 "2014-07-01T03:40:36Z")
I see this as a woman who was employed, and she was paid in room and board. She was fired, but continued to essentially “squat” in her former employers’ home. I do not see it as a woman who was renting from the family and paying rent by providing childcare. Two sides of the same coin, perhaps, and apparently the law favors the nanny, but in my opinion, the family is the side being treated badly. The family is unable to throw fired former employee out of their own house, and that’s just crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/44 "2014-07-01T03:47:27Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I see this as a woman who was employed, and she was paid in room and board. She was fired, but continued to essentially “squat” in her former employers’ home. So after she was fired she has no rights, she has to leave immediately? Even the lawyer for the family isn’t disputing that she is entitled to certain things. There are disputed parts of the story that go into other things she may or may not have done, but how long after she was fired should she have? Are you also saying no tenants should have rights or just her? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/45 "2014-07-01T05:17:54Z")
Oh, wow! This family is friends with my aunt, who was telling me all about this crazy story this weekend. She’ll be amused to hear that the story’s gone viral. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/46 "2014-07-01T13:44:33Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > So after she was fired she has no rights, she has to leave immediately? Even the lawyer for the family isn’t disputing that she is entitled to certain things. There are disputed parts of the story that go into other things she may or may not have done, but how long after she was fired should she have? Are you also saying no tenants should have rights or just her? I think the mitigating factor here is the type of work the woman was engaged to perform - namely, as a childcare worker. The parents hired the woman to watch their children (one of whom is a year old, if memory serves) in their home while they were at work during the day. I have very basic understanding of the tenancy laws and the caregiver’s rights under it; however, I think those rights are at odds with the issue of the childrens’ welfare. This couple is now being told they have to remove their children from their home and move them to a daycare to protect the rights of a woman who is no longer performing the duties she was hired to do, and who may not be completely rational. In my opinion, the rights of the family, and particularly the welfare of the children, trump the rights of the caregiver in this situation. I’d have no issue with removing the caregiver and putting her up in one of those weekly-stay hotel-type places, with the family being required to pay her bill, until the court made a ruling. To allow her to stay in the family’s home may be correct based on a strict legal interpretation, but it passes no sanity check in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/47 "2014-07-01T14:05:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The nanny was given room and board in exchange for taking care of the kids. She failed to uphold her part of the agreement, and she failed to do it for an extended period of time. The only one I know who can stick around after being fired is Silas Marner. And we know how he ended up. He ultimately ended up happy, as my hazy recollection goes. I suspect you may have your assigned readings confused, and actually mean Bartleby the Scrivener. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/48 "2014-07-01T14:25:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > He ultimately ended up happy, as my hazy recollection goes. I suspect you may have your assigned readings confused, and actually mean Bartleby the Scrivener. You are correct. I was distracted when I posted, and did indeed mean Bartleby. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/49 "2014-07-01T15:28:20Z")
Why should we consider renter’s rights in a situation where “rent” was a service and not a typical payment of money? Are apartments ever rented on a barter where no money is exchanged? What bothers me about this case is the personal nature of what the crazy nanny is doing. The proximity of the “nanny’s” room, the unfettered access she has to the family and their belongings changes the situation for me. Sure, it might have been the family’s fault to trust this stranger, but the circumstances, once hostile, should not be covered under the same laws. Considering that they had to chain up their fridge, I think we can agree that this isn’t your typical renter. I think the family should have the ability to kick her out immediately with a 24 hour notice if only to safeguard the wellbeing of the children and remove access to the family ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/50 "2014-07-01T16:37:33Z")
How on earth did they find this woman and hire her? If she came through a reputable agency, she must have been quite an actress. If she came recommended from a friend, I’d have words with that friend. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/51 "2014-07-01T16:42:21Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Why should we consider renter’s rights in a situation where “rent” was a service and not a typical payment of money? Are apartments ever rented on a barter where no money is exchanged? > > What bothers me about this case is the personal nature of what the crazy nanny is doing. The proximity of the “nanny’s” room, the unfettered access she has to the family and their belongings changes the situation for me. Sure, it might have been the family’s fault to trust this stranger, but the circumstances, once hostile, should not be covered under the same laws. Considering that they had to chain up their fridge, I think we can agree that this isn’t your typical renter. I think the family should have the ability to kick her out immediately with a 24 hour notice if only to safeguard the wellbeing of the children and remove access to the family Parenthetically if I were in that situation [kid, wanting a live in nanny] I would not hire a live in unless I had an in-law apartment for them to live in while working for me. That way I would not be risking my actual living space in a situation where I could not move them out immediately upon firing. A simple change of locks and alarm codes would work, and they could only damage or steal from the in-law flat. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/52 "2014-07-01T16:50:04Z")
And now we get [her side](http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/us/california-nanny-squatter/index.html?hpt=hp_t4) of the story. She says they were working her like a dog, so she quit. She says that when she started they had agreed on 30 days notice for her to move out but two days later the family “fired” her and told her to pack up and get out. ---
**Author:** ![Osiris\_the\_1st](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de0a6/32.png) [@Osiris\_the\_1st](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osiris_the_1st)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/53 "2014-07-01T17:16:17Z")
> [@](#): > > But Bracamonte said that can’t happen. “We’re going to a wedding, it has been planned for a year,” she said. “My sister is getting married on a cruise ship and we’re going.” Nice of them to let everyone know their house will be empty. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/54 "2014-07-01T17:21:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The nanny was given room and board in exchange for taking care of the kids. She failed to uphold her part of the agreement, and she failed to do it for an extended period of time. The only one I know who can stick around after being fired is Silas Marner. And we know how he ended up. You only have the word of the family that she stopped doing her duties. Paying someone ‘room and board’ as wages is pretty ‘low’ in my opinion. It’s close to slavery. She has nothing left over at the end of the month because she was paid nothing. True, the nanny entered into the agreement but if this is the sort of arrangement you’re looking for in you nanny, this is the sort of person you’re going to get to take that job. Firing her without a severance package is pretty despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/55 "2014-07-01T17:30:15Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Firing her without a severance package is pretty despicable. This is actually pretty common with normal jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/56 "2014-07-01T19:20:53Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > You only have the word of the family that she stopped doing her duties. Now we have her word, too. She says she quit two days before they say they fired her. She says she was supposed to have 30 days to get out. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/57 "2014-07-01T21:15:06Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > The only reason I got into the thread was to dispute this extrapolation you made in the OP: “I think people should have the right to kick people out of their own home.” I just don’t see how any reading of the story leads to that. In essence you are saying tenants should not have rights, I find that morally dubious as well. She’s not a tenant. There was no intention on the part of the family to make her a tenant. Tenancy laws shouldn’t apply. Citing tenancy laws in a case where an employer fired an employee is silly. That’s everyone and the family’s point. I can see how the laws do apply and why they exist, but I would agree that a large number of reasonable people wouldn’t think that by hiring a nanny, they’re effectively becoming apartment managers. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/58 "2014-07-01T22:59:26Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > And now we get [her side](http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/us/california-nanny-squatter/index.html?hpt=hp_t4) of the story. She says they were working her like a dog, so she quit. She says that when she started they had agreed on 30 days notice for her to move out but two days later the family “fired” her and told her to pack up and get out. Considering how litigious she is and her history, I don’t believe a word she says ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/59 "2014-07-01T23:43:05Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > She’s not a tenant. There was no intention on the part of the family to make her a tenant. Tenancy laws shouldn’t apply. Citing tenancy laws in a case where an employer fired an employee is silly. That’s everyone and the family’s point. > > I can see how the laws do apply and why they exist, but I would agree that a large number of reasonable people wouldn’t think that by hiring a nanny, they’re effectively becoming apartment managers. Tenancy laws do apply their is no question about that. I am just going by what their own lawyer is saying. I do not know why the lawyer for the family would acknowledge that she has certain rights as a tenant if that were not true. Their is nothing ambiguous in regards to her having legal rights as a tenant. I really don’t see where the silliness lies in my reading on that point. We disagree about what should and should not be. I think tenants rights are a good thing others do not. There are many things that could sway me in one way or another as far as how I view the case. I am a stickler for having more evidence against the nanny doing various misdeeds for one. Every story I read is written mostly from the point of view of the family, and only portrays one side mostly; I don’t feel confident that I can really make any sort of accurate judgement based upon that. Gimme some cites, I’ll look at them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880/60 "2014-07-01T23:45:00Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > How on earth did they find this woman and hire her? If she came through a reputable agency, she must have been quite an actress. If she came recommended from a friend, I’d have words with that friend. Craigslist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-thing-that-wouldnt-leave-nanny/691880.md?page=4)