# The Third Term of Office for G.W. Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699 "2004-01-30T03:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/21 "2004-01-30T16:03:40Z")
What’s this nonsense about Ford being President? Nixon never officially resigned.😃 Nixon’s resignation letter was addressed to Secretary of State Henry Kissenger and was handed to him privately. HK is on public record that there was absolutely no instructions as to what he was to do with the letter or that he was to convey the fact of the letter to third parties. That was the old law to resign, which was trumped by the 25th: ."…whenever the President transmits to the president pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. " HK did in fact deliver the letter and the fact of its existence, but he was acting on his own, without directions from Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![hroeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hroeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hroeder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/22 "2004-01-30T16:07:55Z")
I hate to say this, but there’s an awful big presumption that W is going to be reelected, when he’s not polling 50% at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/23 "2004-01-30T16:09:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > who will then cause all those people formerly in favor of federal judicial fiat to reconsider their views. I reconsiderd them long ago! 😉 –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/24 "2004-01-30T16:38:05Z")
And in other news Hell freezes over. Film at 11. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/25 "2004-01-30T17:08:27Z")
Well, if he can’t legally wrangle himself in for a third, how about if Laura gets into politics, say by running for the Senate, and then runs for President in ‘08 thus allowing Dubya to carry on via the backdoor? Their appetite for power and the spotlight is insatiable. I’m tellin’ ya, _those_ folks are eevil. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/26 "2004-01-30T17:10:40Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > At the time of the 22nd Amendment’s adoption or ratification, there were only two ways to become President: election by the Electoral College, or election by the House of Representatives. But the 25th provided a third means, by which Gerald Ford became President: being nominated by the President for a vacancy in the Vice Presidency, and then, the President resigning or dying, succeeding to the Presidency. This is news, I’m sure, to the ghosts of John Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Chester A. Arthur, Teddy Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge, Harry Truman, and Lyndon Johnson. Now, you may argue that each of them took office illegally, given that Art II Sec 1 merely says that in case of the death of the President, the “powers and duties” of the office go to the VP. But precedent is quite important in law, and while Tyler’s assumption of the office and title of President may have been shaky, by the time we get to the past century, it was well-understood that at the death of the President, the Vice-President becomes President. I know that Amendment XXV took the time to spell that out, but the purpose of the amendment was not to clear up that issue, but rather to spell out provisions for disability and temporary removal from office. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/27 "2004-01-30T17:23:00Z")
Well, in the battle of the Bushes vs the Clintons, the former have quantity on their side.🙂 I have no doubt that Hillary and Jeb will face off at some point, if only from their respective primary runs. It’s entirely possible that our grandkids will look back on a series of presidents that looks like this: Bush, GHW Clinton, WJ Bush, GW Clinton, HR Bush, Jeb It might be calle the Bush/Clinton pendulum effect. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/28 "2004-01-30T17:34:14Z")
Hmm, assuming 8 years for each, does that get us to the point where Chelsea is, um, you know, legal? (No smart remarks please.) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/29 "2004-01-30T18:05:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is news, I’m sure, to the ghosts of John Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Chester A. Arthur, Teddy Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge, Harry Truman, and Lyndon Johnson. > > Now, you may argue that each of them took office illegally, given that Art II Sec 1 merely says that in case of the death of the President, the “powers and duties” of the office go to the VP. But precedent is quite important in law, and while Tyler’s assumption of the office and title of President may have been shaky, by the time we get to the past century, it was well-understood that at the death of the President, the Vice-President becomes President. I know that Amendment XXV took the time to spell that out, but the purpose of the amendment was not to clear up that issue, but rather to spell out provisions for disability and temporary removal from office. > > - Rick Gaaah! Hoist by my own petard! Obviously, what I meant was “the only two ways to be chosen as President…” as opposed to inheriting the job by being Vice President on the death or resignation of the incumbent. I am presently beating myself over the head with my paperback copy of Corwin. :o ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/30 "2004-01-30T18:49:19Z")
If we could throw out that term limitation, then the Republican party could go directly to an NFL playoff type system. The convention would simply be a contest between two division winners to determine the order, president and vice president. The two divisions would be “anybody but” and the “Bush/Dole” division. Selection in the later would be much as in the past, each clan would select a member to run against the other. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/31 "2004-01-30T18:54:01Z")
ahaha, What makes you guys think that Democrats will be against it? Because if GWB gets to go again, so does the Big Dog! I would imagine that they would both be supporting it for a Battle Royale! I don’t think GWB will win the next term. Or what he could do is simply have another recount in florida and have the results say that Al Gore was actually elected president and that he wasn’t elected in 2000. That woule make it easier, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/32 "2004-01-31T03:10:54Z")
> [@hroeder](#): > > I hate to say this, but there’s an awful big presumption that W is going to be reelected, when he’s not polling 50% at the moment. So what? He didn’t poll 50 % last time either, and look what happened! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/33 "2004-01-31T03:23:55Z")
> [@aahala](#): > > What’s this nonsense about Ford being President? Nixon never officially resigned.😃 > > Nixon’s resignation letter was addressed to Secretary of State Henry Kissenger and was handed to him privately. HK is on public record that there was absolutely no instructions as to what he was to do with the letter or that he was to convey the fact of the letter to third parties. > > That was the old law to resign, which was trumped by the 25th: > > ."…whenever the President transmits to the president pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. " > > HK did in fact deliver the letter and the fact of its existence, but he was acting on his own, without directions from Nixon. The 25th doesn’t have anything to do with a President resigning office. That’s governed by USC, [Title 3, Chapter 1, § 20 - Resignation or refusal of office](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/3/20.html), which reads: > [@](#): > > The only evidence of a refusal to accept, or of a resignation of the office of President or Vice President, shall be an instrument in writing, declaring the same, and subscribed by the person refusing to accept or resigning, as the case may be, and delivered into the office of the Secretary of State. [Amendment XXV](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment25/) is quite different. It gives the President the power to cease to act, temporarily, by delivering a letter to the Senate president pro tem declaring that he is incapable of exercising the “powers and duties” of the Presidency. While that letter is in force, “such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.” Then, if the President becomes capable again, s. 4 allows him to re-assume the powers and duties, and the Veep ceases to excercise them. Sheesh, didn’t you watch the season finale for _West Wing_ last spring? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/34 "2004-01-31T04:00:45Z")
Let’s give **Cartooniverse’s** conspiracy theory a little twist. How about instead of trying to amend the constitution, he concedes that all the democrats who whine “he was never elected” were right? He was just assigned/appointed like Nixon’s successor. No one else was elected per the 22nd’s restriction of persons acting more 2 or more years after another was elected… Sure, it’d be a sticky argument, but is it possible he could claim that 2004-08 was his first elected term? That’d give dems nightmares… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/35 "2004-01-31T08:03:04Z")
Depending on whether or not Ah-nuld succeeds in California, I expect an amendment doing away with the native-born requirement would be passed before abolishing the term-limit. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/36 "2004-01-31T17:18:16Z")
Sure, it’s a possibility, **Bryan** - especially since both parties have a potential candidate who would benefit from it. Anyone know the status of Hatch’s proposed amendment? ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy154](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ad7895/32.png) [@quiltguy154](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy154)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/37 "2004-01-31T21:07:45Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Depending on whether or not Ah-nuld succeeds in California, I expect an amendment doing away with the native-born requirement would be passed before abolishing the term-limit. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe I heard just that a few months ago. I could swear it was reported, and damned if I can remember where, that Orrin Hatch was involved in trying to do away with the native-born requirement for President. It was so flabbergasting, that I’d only just recalled it now, due to **Bryan Ekers’** prompting. If I’m correct, what are we in store for? Is this aimed strictly at The Governator? Can someone enlighten, or at least tell me I was hallucinating. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/38 "2004-01-31T23:09:34Z")
I don’t think the change in birth place was solely motivated by Schwarzenegger. I think Barney Frank was also in favor of the change. I would think the Democrats would love to run Jennifer Granholm, Michigan’s governor, for a top spot, but she was born in … CANADA :eek: ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/39 "2004-02-01T02:25:45Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Forget his being re-elected. Agreed > [@](#): > > It’s a foregone conclusion. O…what? Well, I suppose…if Dubmo can avoid the debates, but that might look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699/40 "2004-02-01T04:38:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Couldn’t agree more. Never happen. This is more a factual question than a debate so: If it did get passed, would Clinton (Billy boy himself) come back and woop up on his ass? Maybe he’d run with Hilary as his VP. 😃 > > -XT Not if they’re still married, they won’t. Amendment XII of the Constitution prohibits the President and Vice-President from being residents of the same state. Since marriage forms a household that has a state of residence as a matter of law, divorce or another running mate would seem to be in the offing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-third-term-of-office-for-g-w-bush/226699.md?page=3)