# The three traits of serial killers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 23, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143 "2007-01-23T20:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/1 "2007-01-23T20:02:12Z")
One of my housemates mentioned the other day, **The Three Childhood Traits of All Serial Killers** : 1.) Torturing Animals, 2.) Playing with Fire, and 3.) Bedwetting. According to my housemate, if a child displays all three traits, _he_ will be a serial killer, which is a good thing, because if it were only one trait, all men would be serial killers at some point in their lives. If I had pushed a little bit on that pronoun, she would probably have changed it to “he or she.” My housemate can be a bit of a misandrist… Apparently, this came up from her professor of an environmental policy course. My reaction was: :rolleyes: It seems to me to be too much of a “CSI” throw-away fact. (In fact, I wonder if that’s where her prof heard it…) I will freely stipulate that 1 and 3 are not desireable traits. But, speaking as a former boy scout, #2 rocks! So the question: Is there any truth to this claim? I imagine that it would come in the flavor of “xx% of serial killers displayed aaa, bbb, and ccc tendencies when children.” ---
**Author:** ![rocksolid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@rocksolid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocksolid)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/2 "2007-01-23T20:05:58Z")
How regular do you need to exhibit these to accurately describe them as a trait? I mean if we are talking about have you done these three anytime during your childhood then i can definately say it’s BS. Or at least i haven’t killed anyone…yet… ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/3 "2007-01-23T20:08:31Z")
I think the bedwetting thing is supposed to specify “past a certain age”- not sure what the age is though. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/4 "2007-01-23T20:17:13Z")
This is the so-called [MacDonald triad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDonald_triad) of warning signs for possible serial-killerism. These days it’s not taken particularly seriously by people who study serial killers seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/5 "2007-01-23T20:17:35Z")
[QUOTE=JustAnotherGeek] I imagine that it would come in the flavor of “xx% of serial killers displayed aaa, bbb, and ccc tendencies when children.” [/QUOTE] It would also have to be compared against a control group - because it might well be the case that xx% of _everybody_ also displays these tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/6 "2007-01-23T20:25:13Z")
I can’t but think that torturing animals would indicate anything other than a disturbing lack of empathy and, as we know, a trait of sociopathy is lack of empathy. I’d not worry too much about bedwetting (it’s common to kids with learning disorders) but setting multiple fires, particularly it’s a case of vandalism, and torturing animals surely indicates that a kid is headed for serious trouble in later life. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/7 "2007-01-23T20:27:54Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] I can’t but think that torturing animals would indicate anything other than a disturbing lack of empathy and, as we know, a trait of sociopathy is lack of empathy. [/QUOTE] Even if they’re just ants? I mean, give a kid a magnifying glass and an anthill, and that kid is fufilling two of the traits just there. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/8 "2007-01-23T20:28:49Z")
Anyway, there’s absolutely no way it can be a one-to-one relationship where, if the child displays all three traits, they will inevitably become a serial killer, 100% for definite. That’s just completely absurd - nothing in life is as cut-and-dried as that. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/9 "2007-01-23T20:33:01Z")
The article left out the serial killer’s prerequiste. First, he needs the [Classic Middle Name](http://newsoftheweird.com/wayne.html) and then, if they display the above behaviors, you will have serial killer on your hands. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/10 "2007-01-23T20:42:51Z")
I’ve never understood these criteria, either. Every kid I’ve ever known has enjoyed playing with fire, and bedwetting, while undesirable, isn’t exactly the rarest thing in the world. I’d worry a lot more about a kid who tortured animals, but didn’t play with fire or wet the bed, than I would about a kid who played with fire and wet the bed, but was nice to animals. Or, to put it another way, I think that an equally valid “triad” would be torturing animals, disliking doing homework, and liking ice cream. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/11 "2007-01-23T20:50:42Z")
[QUOTE=UncleRojelio] The article left out the serial killer’s prerequiste. First, he needs the [Classic Middle Name](http://newsoftheweird.com/wayne.html) and then, if they display the above behaviors, you will have serial killer on your hands. [/QUOTE] \*That and he has to have killed, well, multiple people. \*I know, I"m an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/12 "2007-01-23T20:50:48Z")
> **[Psychopathy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Childhood_precursors)** > > Psychopathy is a mental health condition characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits. Different conceptions of psychopathy have been used throughout history that are only partly overlapping and may sometimes be contradictory. > Hervey M. Cleckley, an American psychiatrist, influenced the initial diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality reaction/disturbance in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Di... As you can see if the above triad links are followed, its now more thought to be a possible indicator for psychopathy, but only in the context of extended repeated behaviour and the like and psychopathy doesnt equal serial killer. Biological causes have been theorised, along the lines of brain damage or an undersized part of the frontal lobe, leading to impulse control issues. This is probably one of your classic medical student examples, where people are way too likely to overdiagnose it if they just hear it as a factoid. Most importantly: “Not all must be present concurrently, but at least a number of them need to be present over a period of years:” Otara ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/13 "2007-01-23T20:52:17Z")
[QUOTE=UncleRojelio] he needs the URL=[http://newsoftheweird.com/wayne.html](http://newsoftheweird.com/wayne.html)]Classic Middle Name . [/QUOTE] ah crap. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/14 "2007-01-23T20:56:23Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Even if they’re just ants? I mean, give a kid a magnifying glass and an anthill, and that kid is fufilling two of the traits just there. [/QUOTE] I suppose some of it has to do with the way humans are empathic based on anthropomorphism. It’s not a big deal to beat a snake to death (to most people, I gather) but quite another to beat a kitten to death. We have trouble imagining a snake feeling pain but we know a mammal can. Too, it depends on whether the less-‘human’ creature on the bad end of the behaviour is a pet or a foreign invader. If you wallop Sam the Snake that you bought at the pet store to death it’s much more troubling than if you came unexpectedly upon a slithering critter in your garden. Not for me mind you; I don’t like killing stuff. I still put it to you that if Johnny Junior had an ant farm for a while that he tended to and then had at it with his magnifying glass, it would be time to haul that kid’s butt to a pediatric psychologist. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/15 "2007-01-23T20:59:14Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Even if they’re just ants? I mean, give a kid a magnifying glass and an anthill, and that kid is fufilling two of the traits just there. [/QUOTE] [Future serial killers usually don’t stop at cruelty to insects or spiders](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer#Psychology_and_development)- they go on to torturing larger animals, such as dogs or cats. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/16 "2007-01-23T23:19:10Z")
1)I once cut the whiskers off a cat. :o 2)I love to barbecue. 😛 3)During puberty I couldn’t distinguish between peeing and nocturnal emissions. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/17 "2007-01-23T23:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] This is the so-called [MacDonald triad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDonald_triad) of warning signs for possible serial-killerism. These days it’s not taken particularly seriously by people who study serial killers seriously. [/QUOTE] Seriously? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/18 "2007-01-23T23:23:47Z")
[QUOTE=ouryL] 1)I once cut the whiskers off a cat. :o [/quote] After you did that, what did the cat cut off you? > [@](#): > > 3)During puberty I couldn’t distinguish between peeing and nocturnal emissions. > :eek: Ha, you’re no killer. You just _didn’t know whether you were coming or going **HEE HEE HAA HA HAAA HE HEE HYUK HYUK HYUK HEEEE HEE HEE** _ :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/19 "2007-01-23T23:25:34Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] Seriously? 😃 [/QUOTE] Dude, like, I’m _serious_, man. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143/20 "2007-01-23T23:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=ouryL] 3)During puberty I couldn’t distinguish between peeing and nocturnal emissions. [/QUOTE] Refering to it as “nocturnal emissions” is another sign. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-three-traits-of-serial-killers/389143.md?page=2)