# 'The Tiffany Effect': False anachronisms **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2026, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267 "2026-08-10T13:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/181 "2026-08-18T15:39:05Z")
Which started as a single restaurant in Muscatine, Iowa. Which was named “Maid-Rite” from day one (which was in 1924). Whatever @LSLGuy’s theory is, the reality is far more mundane and straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/182 "2026-08-18T16:42:17Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > one tantalizing reference to "sloppy Joe SAuce: from 1940, but which I can’t open. (IN the magazine “Metal Finishing”) Google’s insane method of dating magazines provides another fooler. > … _Sloppy_ Joe _sauce_ , but the rest of the stuff most likely would get hauled away to the junkyard or garbage dump . Closing down a captive plating department was also a fairly simple … _METAL FINISHING_ • MARCH 1994 DEPARTMENTS. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/183 "2026-08-18T17:14:09Z")
All this talk of Sloppy Joe’s is missing an important piece. The New Jersey Sloppy Joe. With these other cites given for the shitty version I guess it’s hard to tell which came first. With the Jersey version it’s easier to see its connection with Cuban sandwiches. It started at the Town Hall Deli in South Orange. The deli is still around and will be having its 100th anniversary next year. They started making the Sloppy Joe in 1935. A local politician was vacationing in Cuba and frequented the previously mentioned Sloppy Joe’s bar. When he came back he had his favorite deli make their version. It’s made with deli meat. Turkey, roast beef or corned beef are most common. Three pieces of rye bread, cole slaw, Swiss cheese, Russian dressing made into a triple decker sandwich. The sandwich is found in delis mostly in Northern New Jersey, predominantly in Essex County but it can be found with less frequency throughout the state. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/184 "2026-08-18T17:21:30Z")
That’s a clear link to a sandwich called the Sloppy Joe served in one restaurant with a clear link to cuban style sandwiches. But it’s not THE sloppy joe and is so different from it that I consider it an entirely different thing. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/185 "2026-08-18T17:41:04Z")
Yes and, the[‘Cuban sandwich’ or ‘Cubano’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_sandwich): a ham, pulled pork and cheese sandwich, which the Northern New Jersey deli version seems to be loosely based on, did not actually originate in Cuba-- it’s the creation of Cuban immigrants in South Florida. So it seems like we’re getting even further afield here. The [original link that CalMeacham provided](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/155) had an article positing that the Cuban connection to the origin of the Sloppy Joe was the owner of Sloppy Joe’s Bar taking [Ropa Vieja](https://www.daringgourmet.com/best-ropa-vieja-the-national-dish-of-cuba/), Cuba’s national dish, which was already beef cooked in tomatoes and spices; using ground instead of shredded beef, and using that as sandwich filling. It may not be the true origin to the Sloppy Joe we grew up with , but it’s more likely than the New Jersey connection, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/186 "2026-08-18T19:26:27Z")
I have a feeling there’s no link to Cuba at all. “Sloppy Joe” style was extremely popular with teens in the 1940s, which was a loose, baggy, casual “sloppy” look. There was even a very popular sweater called a Sloppy Joe sweater marketed as such - a loose, oversized cardigan with long sleeves meant to be be pushed up to the elbows. Lots of newspaper articles from the 40’s will show ads for sloppy joe sweaters and discussions about teen styles and the “Sloppy Joe” look. I doubt any of it has anything to do with the bar in Cuba - “Sloppy Joe” was a not uncommon nickname in the '20s. But a messy sandwich popular with teens at the same time a “messy” style of dressing called Sloppy Joe… ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/187 "2026-08-18T19:36:57Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > “Sloopy Joe” Hang on… ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/188 "2026-08-18T21:07:47Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > That’s a clear link to a sandwich called the Sloppy Joe served in one restaurant with a clear link to cuban style sandwiches. But it’s not THE sloppy joe and is so different from it that I consider it an entirely different thing. It originated in one deli. That one has an unbroken lineage back to its origins. That one deli isn’t even the best known example currently being served. Although the biggest concentration is in one part of the state it is by no means only there. I don’t live close to there but there is a deli about a mile from me where I can get one. It is certainly a different thing than the Manwich people are thinking about but it originated from about the same time, with a similar story apparently independently of the other sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/189 "2026-08-19T05:28:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s made with deli meat. Turkey, roast beef or corned beef are most common. Three pieces of rye bread, cole slaw, Swiss cheese, Russian dressing made into a triple decker sandwich I was only ever familiar w the Manwich style. A couple years ago here in SoFL I saw “Sloppy Joe” on a menu at a NY-style breakfast / bagel / deli place. Ordered it for nostalgia, expecting ground beef in tomato sauce on a burger bun. Was surprised to receive a pastrami & corned beef w coleslaw on rye sandwich. Tasted great, but I was baffled. Who knew?!? ISTM that whatever the truth about the sandwich origins there are at least two unrelated stories about at least two unrelated sandwiches sharing a then-popular meme name. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/190 "2026-08-19T12:29:48Z")
My take is, the Cuban origin story of the Sloppy Joe is the one I _want_ to believe-- it’s fun to think that one of the mainstays of an ordinary weekday dinner growing up, that most Midwestern of sandwiches, might have had exotic origins in Cuban cuisine, born in one of Hemingway’s favorite bars. But realistically, the Iowa origin story is probably most likely. I do predict I’m going to make Ropa Vieja in my near future. Maybe I’ll even turn the leftovers into sandwich filling. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/191 "2026-08-19T13:33:54Z")
Yep, the “deli sloppy joe” is how we distinguished the 2 (as we all got the ground beef version in school). My favorite version was pastami on rye with swiss cheese, cole slaw and russian dressing. Reminds me that I need to visit a deli and get me one soon. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/192 "2026-08-19T19:28:56Z")
FWIW, Hemingway was wearing a sloppy joe sweater in the iconic Yousuf Karsh portrait photo. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/193 "2026-08-20T23:14:58Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > My favorite version was pastami on rye with swiss cheese, cole slaw and russian dressing. Reminds me that I need to visit a deli and get me one soon. So a pastrami reuben with slaw instead of kraut? Sweet slaw or german slaw (i.e. creamy vs. vinegar)? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/194 "2026-08-21T00:57:39Z")
Sort of. Creamy coleslaw. The bread isn’t toasted, flattened or buttered (like a reuben). So the sandwich is a bit taller and not as wide as a reuben. I’m a huge fan of pastrami reubens too. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/195 "2026-08-21T01:28:20Z")
When I worked in food service in my university days, in the Philadelphia area, we served a sandwich like that that we called a “Corned Beef Special”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/196 "2026-08-21T02:03:32Z")
Yeah, the cold cole slaw with the warm pastrami or corned beef is a great combination. Distinct from the Reuben, which is all-warm. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/197 "2026-08-21T02:19:47Z")
Oh, I didn’t realize that the meat was warm, in what you were describing. Ours was all cold. Though that might just be a consequence that the booth we were serving it from didn’t have any heating equipment. I suppose we could have assembled it at the deli station and carried it over to the grill station, or grilled the meat and carried it back, if a customer had asked. And if it was a slow time. And if we really liked the customer. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/198 "2026-08-21T08:56:23Z")
Well okay then. I would certainly give it a try! Sounds tasty… ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/199 "2026-08-21T12:05:21Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > So a pastrami reuben with slaw instead of kraut? Sweet slaw or german slaw (i.e. creamy vs. vinegar)? I’ve also heard of the version of a Reuben with slaw instead of kraut referred to as a ‘Rachel’. From the old ‘Reuben and Rachel’ folk song, I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267/200 "2026-08-21T12:56:26Z")
Whereas the biblical Rachel was Reuben’s aunt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tiffany-effect-false-anachronisms/1032267.md?page=11)