# The Titanic Disaster **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714 "2009-06-14T04:53:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/1 "2009-06-14T04:53:29Z")
When the Titanic sank 1,517 people died. There was a ship called The Californian visible about 3 miles in the distance. If they had been able to get the Californian to come to their aid some if not all of the deaths could have been avoided. The Titanic tried to contact The Californian by radio / morse code without success. The Californian did not operate their radio at night. They also tried with rocket flares. The captain of The Californian when advised by his crew of the flares dismissed it as a celebration. I was thinking about this as I lay awake unable to get to sleep a couple of days back and thought of a couple of possibilties that I have never heard suggested before. 1. Why couldn’t the Titanic have sent a couple of crew members over to The Californian in one of the small row boats they had? Since it was visible it shouldn’t be more than a few miles away should it? 2. The Titanic shut off the engines after the collison with the iceberg and remained stationary for the next 90 minutes while it sank. Maybe they should have kept the engines going and headed straight for The Californian. My thoughts are that in the excitement and trauma of the moment no one thought of these possibilies. Or maybe The Californian was further away than I assume. It was visible so it couldn’t have been more than a few miles away should it? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/2 "2009-06-14T06:04:12Z")
[Some interesting facts about the use of rockets here.](http://www.titanichistoricalsociety.org/articles/titanicmyths.asp) > [@](#): > > This is a complicated subject and was hardly touched on in either the US Senate or Britsh Inquiries. > > Company Signals are different from Distress Signals. Most people assume rockets are rockets and mean distress only. In the Merchant Shipping Act of 1894 the following may help to explain the confusion people have with the idea of a ship at sea firing rockets and what this form of signaling was also used for: > > Article 27 (later Art. 31). When a ship is in distress and requires assistance from other ships or from the shore, the following shall be the signals to be used or displayed by her, either together or separately; that is to say, In the daytime (Text is omitted as it’s not relevant to Titanic). At Night: > > 1. A gun fired at intervals of about one minute; > > 2. Flames on the ship (as from a burning tar barrel, oil barrel, etc.) > > 3. Rockets or shells, throwing stars of any colour or description, fired one at a time, at short intervals. > > Titanic only fired 8 rockets out of a stock of 36. The rockets were not fired at the correct intervals (about one minute as laid down by international agreement) instead taking just over an hour to fire them at intervals ranging from 4 to 6 minutes as reported by those on board. As far as the idea of putting a small bunch of men into a life boat and send it speeding to the California, well, what if they don’t make it. Then you have a boat that should be holding passengers. I don’t think lifeboats are designed to move very quickly in the water either. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/3 "2009-06-14T06:06:20Z")
This is worth exactly what you paid for it, but . . . 1. The primary function of the ship’s lifeboats was, well, saving lives. Once the order was given to uncover and load them, passengers would most likely have taken priority. 2. The damage reports that Captain Smith was given (“she’s torn to bits below” is one account I’ve read) may well have led to the impression that the ship suffered far more structural damage than was actually the case. Under those circumstances, it would probably have seemed irresponsible to strain the hull and risk a catastrophic failure. In any event, such orders would have to originate with Captain Smith; and he seemed unable to make any decisions or give any concrete directions during most of the affair. According to one analysis I came across, it seems likely that he was simply overwhelmed by the enormity of what had taken place and was about to occur. In other words, after he gave the order to evacuate the passengers, he “checked out.” Sounds like a somewhat harsh judgment, but I have to wonder how I would react under the circumstances — and I certainly can’t see myself doing any better. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/4 "2009-06-14T12:10:56Z")
I’m surprised the flares did not get more attention. Or they where not shot off properly. I would think that any series of 3 would get a LOT of attention. Perhaps they did not do that. Would a passenger ship like the California have the ability to pull people out of the water? Does a modern passenger ship have the ability to pull 1000 people out of the water? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/5 "2009-06-14T13:40:58Z")
The flares did get quite a bit of attention (and discussion) on the _Californinan_, and a messenger was sent to wake Captain Lord. Lord basically told the messenger to quit bothering him with trivialities, and went back to sleep. (Couple of side notes: it came out in the inquiries that Lord was a petty tyrant — sort of like Captain Bligh, but without Bligh’s seamanship — who had browbeaten his crew into submission. In addition, the scratch log, which was almost as sacrosanct as the Captain’s log, was missing the pages that would have covered the time period in question.) As for the ability to pluck people out of the water, the _Carpathia_ didn’t do too bad a job. Granted that they were pulling people from boats rather than from the water itself, it should certainly be possible. But bear in mind that Captain Rostron of the _Carpathia_ was almost the polar opposite of Captain Lord. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/6 "2009-06-14T14:32:59Z")
I think modern ships would do okay. There are lots of stories online about cruise ships recovering overboard pax. There is a large hatch just above the waterline where tenders load and unload for excursions. I can’t remember if there is a launch on board, but I’d think so. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/7 "2009-06-14T15:27:24Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Does a modern passenger ship have the ability to pull 1000 people out of the water? In reasonably calm conditions (as prevailed during the Titanic sinking) this would certainly be possible. But even if a ship had been summoned promptly, it’s likely there would still have been considerable loss of life due to the very cold water. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/8 "2009-06-14T17:28:22Z")
On the show Deadliest Catch, a crewman got knocked off of his ship. One of the ships that they were filming on (Time Bandit) was nearby and immediately went over and picked the guy up. The captain of the Time Bandit commented that “the last time that happened we pulled a dead guy out of the water.” The guy was dead before they could turn the boat around and pick him up. Here’s the clip from the show if anyone is interested: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/w1z-hdqEewI/hqdefault.jpg "Deadliest Catch Man Overboard Rescue") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1z-hdqEewI) On the show, they have commented that the survival time in the water with a survival suit is 30 minutes. Without a survival suit it is only 5 minutes. The Titanic didn’t go down in the Bering Sea, but the North Atlantic when the Titanic went down was just as cold. If there were 1000 people in the water, you’d only have time to pick up maybe a couple of them before the others froze to death. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/9 "2009-06-14T17:34:22Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > 1. Why couldn’t the Titanic have sent a couple of crew members over to The Californian in one of the small row boats they had? Since it was visible it shouldn’t be more than a few miles away should it? “A few miles,” rowing at night in open waters with no decent navigational means? Good luck reaching your moving objective! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/10 "2009-06-14T17:49:08Z")
FYI, when the James Cameron movie was released, I saw an article about a high school class that analyzed the Titanic disaster. As I remember, they suggested that a lot more people could have been saved if they did things like making sure that the lifeboats were full and using the wooden doors from the ship as makeshift rafts. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/11 "2009-06-14T20:12:02Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > The flares did get quite a bit of attention (and discussion) on the _Californinan_, and a messenger was sent to wake Captain Lord. Lord basically told the messenger to quit bothering him with trivialities, and went back to sleep. What happened to that captain after that? One has to assume his future wasn’t very pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![initech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/439d5e/32.png) [@initech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/initech)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/12 "2009-06-14T21:19:45Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > What happened to that captain after that? One has to assume his future wasn’t very pleasant. [Nope.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Lord) ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/13 "2009-06-14T21:27:02Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > What happened to that captain after that? One has to assume his future wasn’t very pleasant. He was roundly excoriated in the US inquest, and just as roundly (thoroughly more subtly) excoriated in the British inquest. He parted company with the Leyland Line (owner of the _Californian_) shortly after the Titanic incident; and while he remained at sea for a number of years, accounts indicate that his commands grew progressively “smaller and slower.” Lord does have his supporters (generally known as “Lordites”), and there is something of a perennial movement to rehabilitate his reputation. Much of the effort focuses on a “mystery ship” — supposedly an illegal Norwegian sealer — midway between the _Californian_ and the _Titanic_, which each mistook for the other. That the vessel in question could not have left port, traveled to the scene, and returned in the time available doesn’t seem to faze anyone. Two (minor) points in Lord’s defense: first, his primary responsibility was the safety of his own vessel; and second, even if he had steamed toward the _Titanic_, he probably wouldn’t have been able to navigate through the intervening ice in time to do any good. In the end, what ruined his reputation was not so much that he didn’t do anything effective, as that he didn’t do anything at all. It didn’t help that his (in)actions stood in stark contrast to those of the aforementioned Captain Rostron, who put about immediately (the _Carpathia_ was bound for the Mediterranean) and threaded his ship through the ice at a faster pace than it was supposedly capable of to reach the survivors in time to rescue them. On preview, I see that **initech** has beaten me to the tape. Oh, well. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/14 "2009-06-14T23:35:54Z")
The California radioed the Titanic with ice flow warnings. The radio officer was rebuffed and told to stay off the air because the Titanic was running radio traffice for their passengers. Because of the Ice the Callifornia stopped. A few miles of open sea has a different meaning than on line. I do not know for sure but it could have been as far as 15 miles. The Titanic stopped because to continue would have sunk the ship faster. With the slice in the forward part of the ship moving forward would have forced more water into the hole. Just look at the wake of a passing ship, even on a dead slow bell. Yes a modern ship could pick up all the passengers that made it to the boats alive. The sinking of the Titanic caused lots of changes in maritime law. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/15 "2009-06-14T23:53:28Z")
I am curious-were the watch officers on the Californian able to see the Titanic’s masthead lamps? As I recall, the officer on watch woke Capt. Lord twice, and told him about the rockets. Lord asked the man “what color were the stars?”-the answer was “white”-the color should have been red. Because of this, Lord thought it was not a distress signal. Of course, the radio officer went off duty at midnight-had he staed on, he would have picked up the Titanic’s distress call, and Lord would have (undoubtedly) fired up his engines and gone to the rescue. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/16 "2009-06-15T20:57:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I am curious-were the watch officers on the Californian able to see the Titanic’s masthead lamps? As I recall, the officer on watch woke Capt. Lord twice, and told him about the rockets. Lord asked the man “what color were the stars?”-the answer was “white”-the color should have been red. Because of this, Lord thought it was not a distress signal. Of course, the radio officer went off duty at midnight-had he staed on, he would have picked up the Titanic’s distress call, and Lord would have (undoubtedly) fired up his engines and gone to the rescue. Cite? I’ve never heard any argument that distress rockets should be red. If anything, I would imagine they should be white – so they could be seen. I would say the best account is Walter Lord’s (no relation to Captain Lord) _A Night to Remember_. As he states, it was the rockets that really did in Lord’s arguments – he couldn’t explain them away, or claim not to have seen them. (I have a copy of ANTR and the sequel, _The Night Lives On_, I’ll go and see if I can’t find them) Another problem – even if he didn’t save a single person – the fact that he didn’t even make an attempt to, is what did him in. (As for ferrying over a lifeboat – considering them sent them away half-full, it’s not like it would have mattered. :rolleyes:) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/17 "2009-06-15T21:19:45Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > the aforementioned Captain Rostron, who put about immediately (the _Carpathia_ was bound for the Mediterranean) and threaded his ship through the ice at a faster pace than it was supposedly capable of to reach the survivors in time to rescue them. He turned off the hot water to his passengers so he could get more pressure in the boilers, I understand. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/18 "2009-06-15T21:51:47Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > 1. Why couldn’t the Titanic have sent a couple of crew members over to The Californian in one of the small row boats they had? Since it was visible it shouldn’t be more than a few miles away should it? This site says the _Californian_ was 17 to 20 miles distant from _Titanic_: [http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms\_resources/dft\_masafety\_507706.pdf](http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_masafety_507706.pdf) (PDF warning, see page 11.) How long to row a lifeboat 17 miles? 8 to 10 hours? > [@Imasquare](#): > > 1. The Titanic shut off the engines after the collison with the iceberg and remained stationary for the next 90 minutes while it sank. Maybe they should have kept the engines going and headed straight for The Californian. It was probably to “heave to” and inspect damage. Once they realised that they had a gash/buckled hull for over one third of the ship’s length, the Captain ordered the lifeboats out. The ship needs to be at a stop (or nearly so) to safely launch the lifeboats packed with passengers. Time was critical, once the decision to abandon ship was made. As it was, it took over two hours to launch most of the lifeboats anyway. It would have done no one any good if the _Titanic_ steamed another hour towards the _Californian_, only to stress the hull further, and possibly capsize. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/19 "2009-06-15T22:49:38Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I am curious-were the watch officers on the Californian able to see the Titanic’s masthead lamps? As I recall, the officer on watch woke Capt. Lord twice, and told him about the rockets. Lord asked the man “what color were the stars?”-the answer was “white”-the color should have been red. Because of this, Lord thought it was not a distress signal. Of course, the radio officer went off duty at midnight-had he staed on, he would have picked up the Titanic’s distress call, and Lord would have (undoubtedly) fired up his engines and gone to the rescue. I’m pulling this from memory, but my recollection is that the watch officer (Charles Groves?) saw not only her masthead lights but her upper works. In fact, about the time the _Titanic_ seriously began to sink it was reported to Lord that the ship on the horizon had dimmed the lights in its public spaces (a common practice on liners to encourage passengers to retire). > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > He turned off the hot water to his passengers so he could get more pressure in the boilers, I understand. Indeed. Not just hot water, but steam to the cabin heaters or anything else that didn’t have to do with propulsion. His thought was probably that his passengers could always pile on another blanket, but people were in peril of drowning out there. He also called out the off-duty fireman watch, with instructions to keep the fireboxes full. As a result, the _Carpathia_, which had a rated maximum speed of 16 knots, reached between 17.5 and 18 on its dash north. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714/20 "2009-06-15T23:11:49Z")
I believe by the time Rostron retired from his career at Cunard, he was captain of the _Mauretania_. (Sister ship of the _Lusitania_) Did anyone actually _drown_? I believe some were not able to get out of Third Class, because the gates were still locked (and no, I did not just get this from the movies – I saw this in a documentary BEFORE I even saw the movie). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-titanic-disaster/499714.md?page=2)