I have had this discussion many times and invariably it degenerates into an argument about semantics by people who are not trying to clarify but rather confuse the issue.
It is clear that both words, fruit and vegetable have different meanings but it should also be clear to any intelligent person what meanings we are referring to here.
The meaning is what we mean when we say an orange, an apple, a canteloupe or a mango are fruits rather than vegetables and when we say a green pepper or a cucumber are vegetables rather than fruits. Bringing in other meanings for these words is just confusing rather than helpful.
According to these meanings the main difference between fruits and vegetables is that fruits are sweeter and often eaten raw while vegetables are not so sweet and often cooked.
According to these criteria a tomato is indeed a vegetable. In other cultures it is indeed considered a vegetable and not a fruit. I do not know what the origin of considering it a fruit is but it is very flimsy and no one has come to me with any serious supporting evidence.
I doubt botanists would have any say in such an unscientific thing. I would say it is more the field of linguists (although, obviously, botanists would have an important say). I am sure the Supreme Court had a serious look into this issue when they came to the same conclusion.
Of course there is also some law that states that “for the purposes of this law ketchup shall be a vegetable” but that does not make it a vegetable. It could be that the tomato was classified as a fruit at some time for some purpose but with respect to the common meanings of fruit and vegetable, the tomato should be considered a vegetable.
Lycopersicon lycopersicum is the scientific term for the common tomato
Botanically, tomatoes are a fruit. This is because, generally, a fruit is the edible part of the plant that contains the seeds, while a vegetable is the edible stems, leaves, and roots of the plant.
From Tomatoes in the Home Garden
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
Is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? The answer depends on whom you ask.
Cooks classify tomatoes and other garden produce by their culinary uses; by that criterion, a tomato is a vegetable. Indeed, tomatoes can be found sharing the pages of seed catalogs with onions, carrots, and corn.
But botanists see tomatoes from a more scientific vantage point. To a botanist, a tomato is a mature ovulary – a structure that results from a flower and bears seeds. In other words, a tomato fits the botanical definition of a fruit.
Tomatoes are not alone in their dual designation. Eggplants, peppers, cucumbers and s.quashes are also considered by botanists to be fruits, while simultaneously fitting the cook’s description of vegetables.
It’s both, depending on how you look at it. It’s not without precedent, and there have been even more extreme cases. Karen Quinlan, for example, was both animal and vegetable.
Speaking as a lawyer, from a horticultural (You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think) standpoint, bear nenno is spot on. A fruit is an enlarged ovary with all attached parts. Many grains are, in fact, fruits.
There is no precise definition for vegetables.
I agree with bup, tho. The horticultural definition need not control when planning a menu (or when Reagan’s administration classifies ketchup in school luncheons).
Finally, Jennifer Lopez is one saucy tomato, who could be rendered a vegetable by a spinal injury.
Well, well, looks like I asked a better question than I thought. Thank you all for the responses.
A couple of things:
DrMatrix good link.
Bear_Nenno you are technically correct - my OP assumes tomato as a fruit. That was my own error. If there are facts that contradict my assumptions, I want to know about them. But, given the OP, you are correct.
Oh, and I am indeed male, but thank you for controlling for gender.
Dinsdale “Finally, Jennifer Lopez is one saucy tomato, who could be rendered a vegetable by a spinal injury.” - LOL
Arnold and others who’ve said basically the same thing, given the evidence I’m inclined to agree with this POV. There do seem to be 2 definitions and it does depend on who you ask.
Kilgore you are a fierce warrior in the fight against ignorance, but I’ll second bup’s response.
I’ll be here anytime you want to apologize Kilgore, and Bear I’m sorry that you think my attempt to reduce a little ignorance was a waste of everyone’s. I thought that was the purpose of this board. My bad.
Well personally I am of the opinion that these days it is a moot question and the Tomato is neither. The Tomato that was a fruit/vegetable went extinct about 20 years ago and was replaced with some synthetic creation, to which a slight artificial tomato-ish flavor is added.
1 peck green tomatoes or 1/2
tomatoes and 1/2 tart
apples, cored, pared and
chopped
5 lb. sugar
2 Tbsp. salt
2 lb. chopped raisins
1 c. suet, chopped
1 c. vinegar
juice of 1 lemon
2 tsp. cloves
1 tsp. nutmeg
1 tsp. allspice
1 tsp. cinnamon
Wash tomatoes; remove stem and blossom ends. Put
through food chopper. Drain, cover with cold water and scald
twice with boiling water. Let stand in water last time until
cold. Drain and add sugar, salt, raisins, suet and apples if
used. Cook until tender. Cool, then add vinegar, lemon juice,
cloves, nutmeg, allspice and cinnamon. Pack into hot steril-
ized jars. Makes 5 quarts.
Um Jeff, of course rhubard pie is a case of a vegetable being used in a dessert. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “All fruits are vegetables.” The definition of fruit that you quoted, makes no mention of seeds and even uses rhubarb as an example of a fruit, so I would have to say that rhubarb is a fruit by that definition of fruit.
As for mincemeat pie, I’m not even sure that that is a dessert and you can have my piece. However, just because a tomato can be used in a dessert does not make it a fruit. The definition says, “…used chiefly in a dessert or sweet course.” While you can put a tomato in the middle of a chocolate cake, its chief uses are for salads and main courses. A tomato is not a fruit by that definition.
BTW: My point was that rhubarb is clearly a vegetable which is mainly cooked and used in desserts. So why can’t a tomato be a fruit which is mainly cooked and used as a vegetable?
