# The top 1% - the World over... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680 "2010-07-06T05:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/101 "2010-07-07T21:11:12Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > **ivan** , I’m asking honestly here… do you think that good, nice, uncorrupted \*poor \*people are the norm? More to the point, does Ivan believe that uncorrupted CT adherents are the norm–or even possible? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/102 "2010-07-07T21:44:47Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Does anyone think that non-corrupt billionaires are the norm, or that Warren Buffet and his ilk - well, Terry Matthews at least - are typical of people who create vast personal fortunes? Yes. Yes, I do. Especially if you define “non-corrupt” as “not more corrupt than the general population”. ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/103 "2010-07-08T02:26:07Z")
[QUOTE=Kyla] This is just to say I have beaten down the impoverished that were in the developing countries and which you were incoherently ranting about on the Dope. Forgive me they were so desperate so poor and I’m a self-centered American. [/QUOTE] **Kyla** , I wanted you to know somebody saw this and chortled. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/104 "2010-07-08T02:33:06Z")
Most wealth is inherited. The Rockerfellers, Vanderbilts,Hearsts, Dows and many other families have been wealthy for generations. Even Gates is a newcomer. Old money has been passing its wealth along for a long time. They have managed to convince the poor that they need to be able to pass along their wealth unadulterated by taxes. Some of you idiots have bought it, over and over. What the hell is wrong with you ? Go to New York and see the old estates intact and huge for generations. We are not talking about aberrations like Gates. We are not talking about the Waltons.many of the big money, powerful families are below the radar. But they are the government. they decide who gets to the top of outr political ladder. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/105 "2010-07-08T10:10:10Z")
I’d say most people don’t want to know, **gonzomax**. Rather than look at things that will unsettle their worldviews, they prefer to follow a party line that is far from straight - in all cases. It’s nice to believe there are benevolent billionaires who have concerns for the less fortunate, or governments who actually give a shit about individuality, but history doesn’t have a good record of bearing this out. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/106 "2010-07-08T10:33:37Z")
Well, when you talk about the Lizard People with a straight face, you must get pretty used to not being taken seriously, right **ivan**? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/107 "2010-07-08T10:39:31Z")
How do you know I’ve got a straight face? See, you don’t! It’s one of the drawbacks of messageboard communication. But, your weak attempt to divert attention from the topic at hand is duly noted. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/108 "2010-07-08T10:46:40Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > We are not talking about aberrations like Gates. We are not talking about the Waltons.many of the big money, powerful families are below the radar. But they are the government. they decide who gets to the top of outr political ladder. That’s an interesting claim, depending on what “below the radar” means. How could we go about falsifying it? I mean, you’re presumably claiming that these folks decided to back Obama over first Clinton and then McCain, though if anyone else had won in '08 you’d presumably say otherwise; presumably the current story is that powerful families wanted a Dem White House and Dem Senate and Dem House for a while after that stretch of Republicans controlling all three – after that recent stretch of Democrats controlling all three. So what evidence could, _ **hypothetically,** _ call the conclusion into doubt? Can you tell us who they’re backing in the next elections, or is it only ever _“whoever gets to the top of our political ladder must have, by definition, been decided on by the rich, don’t ya know?”_ Because it otherwise seems rather like various claims about God: _whatever happens is what He willed! Yea, surely does He work in mysterious ways! If things happen one way in the years to come, it’s all part of His plan! If they happen the other way – well, then, that must be the plan! All evidence backs my conclusion; what’s more, all hypothetical evidence backs my conclusion!_ ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/109 "2010-07-08T10:49:50Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It’s nice to believe there are benevolent billionaires who have concerns for the less fortunate, or governments who actually give a shit about individuality, but history doesn’t have a good record of bearing this out. I suppose it’s equally comforting, in a way, to believe that there are \*\*\*no \*\*\*benevolent billionaires who have concerns for the less fortunate, but blind adherence to a philosophy doesn’t become wisdom just because it’s not the prevailing philosophy. Look, I’m a flamingly liberal as they come, but I’m pretty sure that Bill Gates tax writeoff for the foundation doesn’t justify its existence from a personal finance perspective. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/110 "2010-07-08T11:11:35Z")
The point I’m slowly getting around to making, is that “the general public” know more about the lives of some talentless soap-star than they know about the average billionaire. I don’t give a shit if they are modest and humble and want to stay out of the limelight… I want to be able to find out what they are up to with a few taps on my keyboard. Here’s a little list:- [Countries with the most billionaires](http://www.aneki.com/billionaires.html). We’ve named 3 of them, how many more can we account for? [DEL]Bill Gates[/DEL] [DEL]Terry Matthews[/DEL] [DEL]Warren Buffet[/DEL] I think that’s 340 to go. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/111 "2010-07-08T11:33:41Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Here’s a little list:- [Countries with the most billionaires](http://www.aneki.com/billionaires.html). > > We’ve named 3 of them, how many more can we account for? > > [DEL]Bill Gates[/DEL] > [DEL]Terry Matthews[/DEL] > [DEL]Warren Buffet[/DEL] > > I think that’s 340 to go. Well, let’s see: Larry Ellison, George Lucas, Christy Walton, Ralph Lauren, Donald Trump, pretty sure George Steinbrenner is still up there, Michael Dell, Jeff Bezos, David Geffen – come to think of it, Ross Perot is still on there, and apparently _ **didn’t** _ get to pick the President – Oprah is on there, Spielberg is on there – how big a deal is this to you, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/112 "2010-07-08T11:48:18Z")
Ah, here we go: [The 400 Richest Americans 2009 - Forbes.com](http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/54/rich-list-09_The-400-Richest-Americans_Rank.html) So, to keep on keeping on: Brin and Page, of Google fame; Hayne, of Urban Outfitters; Perlmutter, who recently sold Marvel; and et cetera, and et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/113 "2010-07-08T11:58:35Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > But they are the government. they decide who gets to the top of outr political ladder. …they control the horizontal. They control the vertical… > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > The point I’m slowly getting around to making … I don’t give a shit if they are modest and humble and want to stay out of the limelight … I want to be able to find out what they are up to with a few taps on my keyboard. Wow, you petty little tyrant. Did some trust-fund baby steal your girlfriend? So you want, what, radio collars and perma-cameras following anyone who makes more than you? Full disclosure and tight rules for political spending, sure. Maybe even put the burden on the _elected_ representatives to report whenever they’re guests of someone else. You want to address the corruption you see in your happy little conspiracies? There _is_ a lot of reform needed. But this churlish fantasy of being able to tap into their lives just “to find out what they are up to” means you need to pull yourself away from the reality television, get the fuck over yourself, and stop obsessing. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/114 "2010-07-08T12:15:46Z")
If I had my own blog and was bombarding youtube with my amateur detective work, and not just making the occasional comments on here, you might have something resembling a point. Unless you want to clearly define where my obsession lies? Thought not. So, STFU with your self-righteous indignation and get over _your_ self. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/115 "2010-07-08T12:22:07Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > How do you know I’ve got a straight face? See, you don’t! It’s one of the drawbacks of messageboard communication. > > But, your weak attempt to divert attention from the topic at hand is duly noted. Yes, yes; my deepest apologies for trying to divert attention from the topic at hand. I must have pulled that entirely out of my ass, it’s not as if you actually lamely [tried to claim Carl Sagan believed in David Icke’s Lizard people delusions](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12652844&postcount=23) in [this very thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12652863&postcount=24) and [they run our lives](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12652870&postcount=25) or anything.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/116 "2010-07-08T12:26:54Z")
How could Carl Sagan have believed in Icke’s “Lizard People”, when Sagan wrote that while Icke was still an unknown goalkeeper? Comprehension, fucktard. Get some. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/117 "2010-07-08T13:12:06Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I don’t give a shit if they are modest and humble and want to stay out of the limelight… I want to be able to find out what they are up to with a few taps on my keyboard. Tough. They don’t owe you that. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/118 "2010-07-08T13:50:24Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > …they control the horizontal. They control the vertical… But do they control the diagonal? (Or is politics/one world gov’t/whatever the OP is ranting about like Etch-a-Sketch where you can’t do diagonals unless you don’t mind them looking utterly spastic?) ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/119 "2010-07-08T13:51:40Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I want to be able to find out what they are up to with a few taps on my keyboard. Anyone else wondering how many people could have that power and remain nice and uncorrupted? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680/120 "2010-07-08T14:59:32Z")
[http://www.alternet.org/story/147469/we’re\_in\_a\_recession\_because\_the\_rich\_are\_raking\_in\_an\_absurd\_portion\_of\_wealth](http://www.alternet.org/story/147469/we're_in_a_recession_because_the_rich_are_raking_in_an_absurd_portion_of_wealth) Here is Robert Reich who helped grease the skids to our economic problems ,now stating the rapidly growing wealth gap is problematic for America. It is a horrible trend and must be addressed. We all love the American myth of a poor boy getting rich. With 300 million people occasionally it does happen. it will not happen to you though. You have to deal with the ramifications of those who are already rich codifying their power in the courts and paying politicians to make it so they get even more. It comes from somewhere. It is yours. Lower wages, lower benefits, and worker insecurity are good for the exploiters. Not so good for the rest of us though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-top-1-the-world-over/545680.md?page=7)