# The torture of a twelve year old girl? Time to leave... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102 "2004-05-07T23:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/221 "2004-05-11T17:05:47Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Oh, just wait. We are quickly approaching stage 4: where, after downplaying the abuse or blaming it all ona six deviants has failed, right wing pundits are going to start arguing that the abuses were justified. > [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/05/10/do1001.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/05/10/ixportal.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/05/10/do1001.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/05/10/ixportal.html) > > The Four Stages of Republican denial: how depressingly prescient. Kevn has it just about rigyht–it’ll be the return of Ollie North, this time with a digicam…instead of an m16. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/222 "2004-05-11T17:09:31Z")
Won’t be necessary. There will be some act of horrible retribution visited on an American soldier or “contractor”. Thus, it will be shown that humanity and tolerance are wasted on such animals as these, and the wimpy bleatings of fuzzy-thinking “peace freaks” can be brushed aside. These 'Rockees, they don’t feel pain like we do. No respect for human life. Kill 'em all, let God figure out who’s guilty. I hope I’m full of it. I really do. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/223 "2004-05-11T17:25:41Z")
**Apos** : > [@](#): > > Oh, just wait. We are quickly approaching stage 4: where, after downplaying the abuse or blaming it all ona six deviants has failed, right wing pundits are going to start arguing that the abuses were justified. Or, in the case of Kathleen Parker, that it was all the fault of society: > **[Kathleen Parker: Biography and Latest Articles - Kathleen Parker](https://townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/)** > > Kathleen Parker’s clear, descriptive, lively writing underscores her common-sense approach to life's challenges. Twice weekly, Kathleen Parker assesses the country’s mental health with a Rorschach uniquely her own – a reporter’s gimlet eye combined... And yeah, I know that she says that she doesn’t want to blame society. She also then turns around and proceeds to do precisely that. Besides, she already blamed it on six bad apples in her column preceding the above. So I imagine that she’ll be writing about justification along the lines of the whole, “These people were rapists and killers! They had to be dealt with harshly!” Man, if this weren’t so fucking depressing, it would be amusing. Waste ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/224 "2004-05-11T17:38:48Z")
This just in… [http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040511/pl\_nm/iraq\_abuse\_inhofe\_dc&printer=1](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040511/pl_nm/iraq_abuse_inhofe_dc&printer=1) \*\*Senator ‘Outraged by Outrage’ at Prison Abuse \*\* " As others condemned the reported abuse of Iraqi prisoners, U.S. Sen. James Inhofe on Tuesday expressed outrage at the worldwide outrage over the treatment by American soldiers of those he called “terrorists” and “murderers.” “I’m probably not the only one up at this table that is more outraged by the outrage than we are by the treatment,” the Oklahoma Republican said at a U.S. Senate hearing probing the scandal. “These prisoners, you know they’re not there for traffic violations,” Inhofe said. “If they’re in cellblock 1-A or 1-B, these prisoners, they’re murderers, they’re terrorists, they’re insurgents. Many of them probably have American blood on their hands and here we’re so concerned about the treatment of those individuals.” Coalition military intelligence officers estimated that _about 70 percent to 90 percent of the thousands of prisoners detained in Iraq had been “arrested by mistake,”_ according to a report by Red Cross given to the Bush administration last year and leaked this week. …" (emphasis wearily added) “…I am also outraged that we have so many humanitarian do-gooders right now crawling all over these prisons looking for human rights violations, while our troops, our heroes are fighting and dying,” he said. " Inhofe, who visited Iraq in March, is described on his senatorial Web site as a leading conservative voice in the Senate, advocating “common sense Oklahoma values including less government, less regulation, lower taxes, fiscal responsibility and a strong national defense” 'Nuff sed. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/225 "2004-05-11T17:43:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _alaricthegoth_ > The cracker of the year award is reserved for those persons burdened by a southern accent, who nonetheless display an astonishing ability to reason clearly and (god help me, apparantly) the intellectual honesty to follow the trail of their own thoughts to a politically unpalatable conclusion. > Since it is constitutionally impossible for a Republican to be intellectually honest, Lindsey Graham must be a plant, a clone, an alien masquerading as a republican senator, or some other kind of double agent. _: ahem :_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/226 "2004-05-11T17:52:20Z")
The woeful state of American education, that so many don’t know the difference between a cracker and a peckerwood. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/227 "2004-05-11T18:08:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Won’t be necessary. There will be some act of horrible retribution visited on an American soldier or “contractor”. Thus, it will be shown that humanity and tolerance are wasted on such animals as these, and the wimpy bleatings of fuzzy-thinking “peace freaks” can be brushed aside. These 'Rockees, they don’t feel pain like we do. No respect for human life. Kill 'em all, let God figure out who’s guilty. > > I hope I’m full of it. I really do. [Mind if I call you Nostradamus?](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=11&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded) > [@](#): > > **Video Seems to Show Beheading of American** > > By NIKO PRICE, Associated Press Writer > > CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed the beheading of an American civilian in Iraq, and said the execution was carried out by an al-Qaida affiliated group to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers. > > The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit — similar to a prisoner’s uniform — who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday. > > “My name is Nick Berg, my father’s name is Michael, my mother’s name is Susan,” the man said on the video. “I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in … Philadelphia.” > > After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting “Allahu Akbar!” — “God is great.” They then held the head out before the camera. Of course, the fundie nutjobs don’t really need much in the way of an excuse to kidnap and murder Americans. (Danny Pearl, anyone?) But I can confidently predict that before the week is out, the usual suspects will be beating their chests while standing on the headless corpse of the unfortunate Mr. Berg. Heck, I bet they’re equating Berg’s killers with the “terrorists and murderers in Abu Gharaib” before the day is out. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/228 "2004-05-11T18:18:50Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > _: ahem :_ I had heard a rumor that you suffered from Registrationis Nervosa Repulicanoirum, and, of course, I offer my condolences. Interventions are available– You don’t need to be held prisoner by these cultists any longer! FREE YOURSELF, MY BROTHER. YES FREE ALL THE R4EPUBLICAN SLAVES, FREE THEM ALL… (Cut to Kevin McCarthy running wildly down the middle of the road…) ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/229 "2004-05-11T18:22:30Z")
**minty** , you beat me to this. I heard about this beheading on NPR over lunchtime, not more than 30 minutes ago. **elucidator** , I hope you’re wrong about the Right using this to justify the abuses. But I fear you will be as correct about this as you were about the retribution prediction. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/230 "2004-05-11T18:23:54Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > **Apos** : > Or, in the case of Kathleen Parker, that it was all the fault of society: > > [Kathleen Parker: Biography and Latest Articles](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/kp20040508.shtml) > Man, if this weren’t so fucking depressing, it would be amusing. > > Waste One of the senators (don’t know shich pub) blamed clinton. (\*Not the senator on the committee, the other one) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/231 "2004-05-11T18:26:40Z")
The Bad Guys[sup]TM[/sup] receive a share of all of our outrage everyday, but when The Good Guys[sup]TM[/sup] do something to deserve some outrage, it’s showered upon them like a feast for the [prodigal son](http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=LUKE%2B15%3A11-32&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=KJV&x=18&y=9). Inhofe says, "Lo, these many years do The Bad Guys[sup]TM[/sup] vex thee, neither ceasing in their transgression nor at any time honoring thy commandments: and yet thou never gavest a shit enough to have a pulic fit, that they might be scourged: But as soon as this The Good Guys[sup]TM[/sup] were wanton, which hath served you faithfully and honorably, thou hast a puiblic apoplexy. And we say unto Inhofe, The Bad Guys[sup]TM[/sup] art ever with us, and all outrage that we have is their. It was meet that we should have a public fit, and be outraged: for The Good Guys[sup]TM[/sup] were honorable by us, and is found wayward; and were Good, and are Bad. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/232 "2004-05-11T18:40:09Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > The Bad Guys[sup]TM[/sup] receive a share of all of our outrage everyday, but when The Good Guys[sup]TM[/sup] do something to deserve some outrage, it’s showered upon them like a feast for the [prodigal son](http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=LUKE%2B15%3A11-32&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=KJV&x=18&y=9). > Inhofe says, "Lo, these many years do The Bad Guys[sup]TM[/sup] vex thee, neither ceasing in their transgression nor at any time honoring thy commandments: and yet thou never gavest a shit enough to have a pulic fit, that they might be scourged: > But as soon as this The Good Guys[sup]TM[/sup] were wanton, which hath served you faithfully and honorably, thou hast a puiblic apoplexy. > > And we say unto Inhofe, The Bad Guys[sup]TM[/sup] art ever with us, and all outrage that we have is their. > It was meet that we should have a public fit, and be outraged: for The Good Guys[sup]TM[/sup] were honorable by us, and is found wayward; and were Good, and are Bad. without sharing too much information, the parable at issue is a favorite… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/233 "2004-05-11T19:11:09Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > **minty** , you beat me to this. I heard about this beheading on NPR over lunchtime, not more than 30 minutes ago. **elucidator** , I hope you’re wrong about the Right using this to justify the abuses. But I fear you will be as correct about this as you were about the retribution prediction. That’s the bitch about pessimism, usually right, never happy about it. But they won’t use it to actually _justify_ the abuses, just to posit that it doesn’t really matter. Look at the aforementioned Sen. Inhofe. The info from the Red Cross that most of the detainees aren’t anybody special was right in front of his face, he didn’t want to see it, so he didn’t. How many more of our fellow citizens have precisely the same attitude? Anyway, predicting retaliation and vengeance is no trick, its like holding a bowling ball over your foot and dropping it, you already know you’re going to wish you hadn’t. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/234 "2004-05-11T19:22:55Z")
I read over at Josh Micah’s _Talking Points Memo_ that John McCain walked out in disgust when Inhofe was making his “statement”. Mr. McCain, sir, I don’t agree with you about much of anything. But if you aren’t a ring-tailed rip-snorter of a _man_, I don’t know who is. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/235 "2004-05-11T19:29:36Z")
From today’s testimony: > [@](#): > > SEN. INHOFE: Mr. Chairman, I also am – and have to say, when we talk about the treatment of these prisoners, that I would guess that these prisoners wake up every morning thanking Allah that Saddam Hussein is not in charge of these prisoners. When he was in charge they would take electric drills and drill holes through hands, they would cut their tongues out, they would cut their ears off. We’ve seen accounts of lowering their bodies into vats of acid. … I am also outraged that we have so many humanitarian do-gooders right now crawling all over these prisons, looking for human rights violations while our troops, our heroes, are fighting and dying. And I just don’t think we can take seven – seven bad people. This is, of course, overinflated conservative Bush-apologist speak for, “Hey, we aren’t throwing anyone into ovens yet, why make a big deal over this?” :eek: I’m tempted to drive up to Oklahoma so I can find Senator Inhofe and personally pimp-smack him for his nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/236 "2004-05-11T19:48:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Mr. McCain, sir, I don’t agree with you about much of anything. But if you aren’t a ring-tailed rip-snorter of a _man_, I don’t know who is. C’mon **elucidator** , surely you know that Mcain suffers from an irrational dislike for torture because of his experiences in Vietnam. His credibility and manliness on this issue are widely regarded as having been compromised by a bad case of post traumatic stress syndrome. -At least that’s what I hear coming from the right side of the aisle. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/237 "2004-05-11T21:31:41Z")
I’m pretty sure my irony detection apparatus can’t handle this level of input. Have to recalibrate. Of course, there is no such thing as an “irrational” hatred of torture. Your comment about McCain being sympathetically dissed (i.e., his experience of torture coloring his opinion)…have any kind of cite for that? So that I might know whom, specificly, to loathe besides the leprous Mr. Inhofe. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/238 "2004-05-12T00:02:45Z")
I have somewhat changed my mind here. I read in todays San Jose Mercury news, and it turns out someone leaked a ICRC (Red Cross) report to the Admin complaining about and listing abuses of prisoners- and this was months before the pics. Thus, GWB & Rumsfield knew about widespread abuses of prisoners before they were 'shocked & disgusted" by the pics. Time to get rid of a few top Officials. Let’s start with Rummie, and vote out GWB. Since GWB may soon faces charges in the Hague, let’s not have the national embarrassment of a _sitting_ Prez facing warcrimes & similar charges. Note that I still stand behind my position that the USA can’t simply make an immediate unilateral withdrawel. But it is time to hand the reins over, ASAP. Not that I don’t think other dudes will be as bad- just that I don’t want American fingerprints all over such atrocities & crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Senggum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Senggum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senggum)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/239 "2004-05-12T00:11:34Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > This is not a rant. > > Please, let us not quibble abouth the factual accuracy of the charge below–assume (hypothetically, if you must) that it is true… The fact is, that a video today showed Nick Berg, 26, from West Chester, PA having his neck sliced while he was alive until his head broke off. In light of this, what the hell does “hypothetically” mean in terms of this kind of torture? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102/240 "2004-05-12T00:18:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Let’s start with Rummie, and vote out GWB. . that’s all I ask… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-torture-of-a-twelve-year-old-girl-time-to-leave/244102.md?page=13)