# The Tower of Babel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746 "2010-10-20T04:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/21 "2010-10-20T15:41:48Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > IIRC, Jericho was inhabited alongside the ancient Hebrews. Jericho was uninhabited between the 16th century BCE (when the large, Middle Bronze age city was destroyed) and the 9th Century BCE. The Israelites emerged in about the 12th Century BCE, and the Joshua story was written sometime between the 8th and 6th Centuries. The Bible also credits Joshua with destroying another city called Ai, which literally means “ruin,” and which archaeology shows was destroyed a thousand years before Jericho. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/22 "2010-10-20T16:28:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It’s the same story over and over, told from a differing perspective each time. They combine into a single story, the redemption of man by Lord Jesus. The plagues of Egypt, are the plagues of Revelation, the mark of the beast in Rev is in Deut 6:8 while Ez 9:4 shows the mark of the servants of God as described in Rev. And in those 2 you can see the two paths, Satan’s, holding people under the Law, and God’s looking only at the heart of His people. > > Why is it not the same every time, because it’s different perspectives, some will include aspects that others leave out. > > It does say that the evil one has blinded men to the truth of God. The truth of God would be God’s Word. So yes. So, **kanicbird** , when is your Bible coming out? You certainly don’t seem to like the one we have. There is no Satan in this story, there is no Satan in the Garden of Eden, and the one in Job is not the one you think he is. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/23 "2010-10-20T16:32:16Z")
No No No. The ‘tower’ of Babel was a rocket ship and the space aliens wanted none of that shit! So they nuked us back to the stone age. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/24 "2010-10-20T17:21:33Z")
It’s a pretty ironic story. They want to build the city and tower so they won’t be scattered over the earth, but the building is the cause of their being scattered over the earth. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/25 "2010-10-20T17:23:21Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > No No No. > > The ‘tower’ of Babel was a rocket ship and the space aliens wanted none of that shit! So they nuked us back to the stone age. From orbit. It was the only way to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/26 "2010-10-20T17:31:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s a pretty ironic story. They want to build the city and tower so they won’t be scattered over the earth, but the building is the cause of their being scattered over the earth. Why does everything lead back to Alanis Morissette being God? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/27 "2010-10-20T17:34:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Jericho was uninhabited between the 16th century BCE (when the large, Middle Bronze age city was destroyed) and the 9th Century BCE. The Israelites emerged in about the 12th Century BCE, and the Joshua story was written sometime between the 8th and 6th Centuries. > > The Bible also credits Joshua with destroying another city called Ai, which literally means “ruin,” and which archaeology shows was destroyed a thousand years before Jericho. I meant specifically when that specific story was written. Not that I object to people saying the Hebrews made a lot of stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/28 "2010-10-20T17:49:06Z")
> [@](#): > > 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” Who’s He talking to in verse 7? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/29 "2010-10-20T17:54:35Z")
It might be an artifact of the story having an older, polytheistic origin. I don’t know Hebrew, though and it might just be a Hebrew grammatical construction that makes more sense in Hebrew than in English. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/30 "2010-10-20T18:15:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It might be an artifact of the story having an older, polytheistic origin. I don’t know Hebrew, though and it might just be a Hebrew grammatical construction that makes more sense in Hebrew than in English. Again, a similar issue arises in Genesis 3. I wonder if this is an example of the “royal we”, a mere artifact of hebrew translation, or a genuine oddity/polytheism survival. Someone must know. > [@](#): > > 22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like **one of us** in knowing good and evil … Who is this “us” he’s talking with? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/31 "2010-10-20T18:21:25Z")
You guys are a bunch of Nimrods. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/32 "2010-10-20T18:22:15Z")
I think _that_ passage is definitely understood to be a polytheistic artifact. I’ve also read somewhere (and don’t renember where now) that the “royal we” was not a convention that existed in ancient Hebrew, but I do not know enough about Hebrew to say I know that for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/33 "2010-10-20T18:28:13Z")
Well, it’s not just the “we”. He’s actually telling it to come with Him. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/34 "2010-10-20T18:29:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think _that_ passage is definitely understood to be a polytheistic artifact. I’ve also read somewhere (and don’t renember where now) that the “royal we” was not a convention that existed in ancient Hebrew, but I do not know enough about Hebrew to say I know that for sure. Yeah, I strongly suspect polytheistic artifact myself. I know that Christians at least explain this passage as indicating the Trinity, but that only works if you happen to believe that Christian theology is literally true … there as several odd survivals in Genesis, such as the mention in passing of the existence of demigods, which are somewhat inconsistent with later monotheistic theology. Edit: the evolution of the approach to other gods in the OT would make an interesting study. At some point in Judeo-Christianity, the belief arose that no other gods actually existed - this does not appear to have been originally the case: certainly you weren’t supposed to _worship_ other gods, or have other gods “before me”, and other gods were depicted as basically puny compared with Yahweh. I wonder when in the evolution of the religion the notion arose that no other gods existed _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/35 "2010-10-20T18:56:38Z")
After the Babylonian exile and the influence of Persian Zorastrianism (that’s also how Judaism got its eschatological ideas – i.e. the notions of an end to the world and a day of judgement). Before that, they were henotheistic (there are other gods, but we only worship THIS one), which centralized the Yahweh cult in Jerusalem (forbidding sacrifices at any other locations or to any other gods centralized political and economic power in Jerusalem), and before that it was straight up, Canaanite derived polytheism. Yahweh’s consort, Asherah, was popular for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/36 "2010-10-20T19:01:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > After the Babylonian exile and the influence of Persian Zorastrianism (that’s also how Judaism got its eschatological ideas – i.e. the notions of an end to the world and a day of judgement). > > Before that, they were henotheistic (there are other gods, but we only worship THIS one), which centralized the Yahweh cult in Jerusalem (forbidding sacrifices at any other locations or to any other gods centralized political and economic power in Jerusalem), and before that it was straight up, Canaanite derived polytheism. Yahweh’s consort, Asherah, was popular for quite a while. Can you recommend a good, modern study on this subject? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/37 "2010-10-20T19:14:09Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Can you recommend a good, modern study on this subject? [The Bible Unearthed](http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136) is the classic starter. I’d also reccomend William Dever’s [Did God Have a Wife?](http://www.amazon.com/Have-Archaeology-Religion-Ancient-Israel/dp/0802828523) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/38 "2010-10-20T19:22:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [The Bible Unearthed](http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136) is the classic starter. I’d also reccomend William Dever’s [Did God Have a Wife?](http://www.amazon.com/Have-Archaeology-Religion-Ancient-Israel/dp/0802828523) Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/39 "2010-10-20T19:48:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yahweh’s consort, Asherah, was popular for quite a while. Asherah was Uguritic El’s consort. Asherah as Yahweh’s consort is possible, and people like Dever suggest it, but it’s not yet conclusive. Basically, as I understand it, the identification of Asherah as the consort of Yahweh comes from two pieces of pottery, the first saying “I bless you by Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah”, and the second saying, “I bless you by Yahweh of Teman/the south and his Asherah”, with the second also showing a cow sucking a calf, two standing figures with what seem to be visible penises, and a third smaller figure with what seems to be breasts sitting playing a lyre. Some people have, largely because it’s below the inscriptions, identified the standing figures as Yahweh and Baal and the seated figure as Asherah. Others identify them as the Egyptian god Bes. So it comes down to what “his Asherah” means, and there are people like Mark S. Smith who are even skeptical that there was even worship of Asherah during the monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746/40 "2010-10-20T20:01:42Z")
Dever says that well after Yahweh worship was the official state religion, it was really only practiced by the upper classes and the nobility while the common folks stiill practiced Asherah worship. Asherah’s shrines were periodically purged, but her figurines and “Asherah poles” were ubiquitous untile the Babylnian exile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tower-of-babel/557746.md?page=3)