# The Train's Coming At You! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175 "2007-12-07T16:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/1 "2007-12-07T16:39:22Z")
Just about every history of movies includes the anecdote that when French audiences first saw the 1895 Lumière brothers film that showed a train coming toward the camera, they fled the room in panic. For example, David Thomson, _The Whole Equation:_ > [@](#): > > [W]hen the train pulled into the station, not head-on into the camera but coming in its general direction, some in the audience are said to have run screaming from the room, terrified that the actual weight and force of the engine was about to come off the screen and into the room. Here’s what [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Arriv%C3%A9e_d%27un_Train_en_Gare_de_la_Ciotat) says: > [@](#): > > The film is associated with an urban legend well-known in the world of cinema. The story goes that when the film was first shown, the audience was so overwhelmed by the moving image of a life-sized train coming directly at them that people screamed and ran to the back of the room. Hellmuth Karasek in the German magazine Der Spiegel wrote that the film “had a particularly lasting impact; yes, it caused fear, terror, even panic.” However, some have doubted the veracity of this incident such as film scholar and historian Martin Loiperdinger in his essay, “Lumière’s Arrival of the Train: Cinema’s Founding Myth”. Causing panic is interesting but not the same as running away in terror. Is there any other better, or more precise, evidence than this? If it’s not true, when and how did the story start? Does Loiperdinger or anyone else talk about this? I can’t find the full essay online. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/2 "2007-12-07T18:10:44Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Does Loiperdinger or anyone else talk about this? [/QUOTE] [Here](http://www.iamhist.org/journal/bottomore.pdf) (PDF) is an article from the _Historical Journal of Film, Radio and Television, Vol. 19, No. 2, 1999_ which discusses the ‘train effect’ in general. The author is a Mr. Stephen Bottomore, whose credentials I cannot vouch for but who gives a plethora of sources. ([Here](http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:WX8kKIos2ZgJ:www.iamhist.org/journal/bottomore.pdf+Loiperdinger+train&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=uk&lr=lang_en%7Clang_fr&ie=UTF-8) is the HTML version of that link. Parts of it are difficult to read and you don’t get the snazzy pictures and cartoons). Anyway, Mr Bottomore opines like so: > [@](#): > > This fearful or panicky reaction has been called `the train effect’ . It is such a common anecdote, cited by so many writers both at the time and later, that it has also been called `the founding myth of cinema’ or the cinema’ s `myth of origin’ [3] But did audiences really panic at films of approaching trains? If so, why? And if not, why are the stories apparently so ubiquitous? In the course of this article I will try to show the following for the `train effect’ . > > (1) That it did on occasions happen. > (2) A plausible mechanism for it rooted in psychology. > (3) A possible explanation for exaggeration of the phenomenon. > (4) Evidence that some audiences were more susceptible than others. Specifically concerning the Lumiere train film, the author seems to endorse Loiperdinger’s argument that mass flight would have been an unlikely audience reaction. > [@](#): > > In other late versions of this tale, the implication is sometimes that panic was a common reaction to first seeing train films. One witness even claimed later that audiences fled from their seats, this from the first film projectionist at Berlin’ s Unter den Linden 21 in 1896. However, Martin Loiperdinger, referring to the Lumiere Grand Cafe shows in particular (though his argument could perhaps be made more generally), has reasoned that this suggestion of mass flight really is difficult to believe. He makes the point that if there had indeed been mass panics with people running out of the Grand Cafe, there would probably have been injuries, for there were large crowds (100 new spectators arrived and left per hour) and the steps were steep. Yet there were no reported injuries in either the police records or in the press [10]. So as far as the Lumiere shows in Paris are concerned, any suggestion of a fleeing audience would seem to be discounted. There really is plenty more and I hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/3 "2007-12-07T21:23:21Z")
It’s not something that only happened then! I remember in the 1970’s, in the Cinerama theatre in Minneapolis, watching _Ice Station Zebra_, and a sudden scene shift to a plane coming directly toward the camera – half the audience screamed and ducked down in their seats. And this with a group of American teenage high school students, who had seen many, many movies before. Good movie makers still work for scenes that surprise and startle their audience like this. ---
**Author:** ![from\_a\_to\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5fc32e/32.png) [@from\_a\_to\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/from_a_to_z)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/4 "2007-12-07T22:04:28Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] …half the audience screamed and ducked down in their seats… [/QUOTE] Reason enough to see Reggie Rymal in the 3D version of [House of Wax](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0045888/). ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/5 "2007-12-07T22:19:13Z")
Slightly different but when we visited a 3D IMAX show in Dublin one time there was a cartoon at the start in which the character climbed a ladder and the ladder appeared to fall out into the audience. Lots of people flinched, screamed, and I’m fairly sure one or two jumped to the side to avoid the falling ladder. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/6 "2007-12-07T23:13:30Z")
Have to remember we’re talking about a tiny, silent, black & white image, probably projected onto a sheet, rather than a sound and color image on a screen ten times larger than real life. And reflexively ducking is not fleeing the theater in terror. Very different experiences, even if the earlier was something brand new. **Chez Guevara** , thanks. I’ll have to read that article. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/7 "2007-12-07T23:37:58Z")
Anyone who has been on a cutting edge roller coaster or 3D ride, or bungee jumped can easily see how a film of a train approaching head-on might very well provoke a flight or panic response in those who are experiencing a new level of stimulation. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/8 "2007-12-08T01:51:03Z")
I could certainly believe a few people leaping from their seats seeing something like this. Considering they had never _ever_ seen anything of its like before. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/9 "2007-12-08T07:25:35Z")
I thought everyone might find this passage from _McTeague_ interesting, from where the characters see a “kinetoscope” exhibition at the end of a vaudeville show. > [@McTeague by Frank Norris](#): > > The kinetoscope fairly took their breaths away. > > “What will they do next?” observed Trina, in amazement. “Ain’t that wonderful, Mac?” > > McTeague was awe-struck. > > “Look at that horse move his head,” he cried excitedly, quite carried away. “Look at that cable car coming – and the man going across the street. See, here comes a truck. Well, I never in all my life! What would Marcus say to this?” > > “It’s all a drick!” exclaimed Mrs. Sieppe, with sudden conviction. “I ain’t no fool; dot’s nothun but a drick.” (Since the novel was written in 1899, I think the “truck” must have been a big wagon of some kind.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/10 "2007-12-08T08:38:19Z")
Heck, I remember reflexively raising my hands for protection during a shock moment in _Minority Report_, an otherwise unremarkable film. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/11 "2007-12-08T08:53:03Z")
Disney’s circlevision theatre caused audiences to sway and even fall over occasionally. A modern equivalent is their “Soarin’ Over California” attraction. I am deathly afraid of heights, and they had big signs saying to stay off the thing if you suffered from that, but, I’ll be damned if I’ll stay off any namby-pamby Disney ride 🆒 Besides, It’s only motion base, and a big IMAX screen, so there is no possible way I can panic because intellectually I KNOW that ``` OMFG! I AM ONE THOUSAND FEET ABOVE THE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE LOOKING DOWN! OMFG OMFG! ``` Well, I almost crapped my pants. And after I got over the shock, I went back on the ride again, and it is now my favorite thing to do at California Adventure. But yeah, the cinema can panic you. Duh duh. Duh duh. DUh duh DUH DUH Duh DUH Duh dUH DUH DUH! ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/12 "2007-12-08T16:29:47Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer] Disney’s circlevision theatre caused audiences to sway and even fall over occasionally. [/QUOTE] Exactly what I came in to say. They had a Circlevision movie years ago sponsored by the Bell System - a trip around the USA (called America The Beautiful??), that had two scenes that would cause people to actually lean so far in one direction that they would fall over. One of the scenes was a plane flying through the Grand Canyon. When the plane banked for a turn, the audience leaned. The other was more pronounced. It was a ride through the streets of San Francisco on the back of a hook-and-ladder fire engine - when it made a sharp turn, people would always fall over with the quick leaning. Wow. Memories. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/13 "2007-12-08T16:31:28Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer] Disney’s circlevision theatre caused audiences to sway and even fall over occasionally. A modern equivalent is their “Soarin’ Over California” attraction. I am deathly afraid of heights, and they had big signs saying to stay off the thing if you suffered from that, but, I’ll be damned if I’ll stay off any namby-pamby Disney ride 🆒 Besides, It’s only motion base, and a big IMAX screen, so there is no possible way I can panic because intellectually I KNOW that ``` OMFG! I AM ONE THOUSAND FEET ABOVE THE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE LOOKING DOWN! OMFG OMFG! ``` Well, I almost crapped my pants. And after I got over the shock, I went back on the ride again, and it is now my favorite thing to do at California Adventure. But yeah, the cinema can panic you. Duh duh. Duh duh. DUh duh DUH DUH Duh DUH Duh dUH DUH DUH! [/QUOTE] As Quint was sliding down the deck of his boat into jaws’ jaws, I dug my heels into the floor trying my best to help. I do that sort of thing a lot, but have never even considered leaving. I doubt very much that those people watching the train in that movie did either. Time for a :rolleyes: Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/14 "2007-12-08T23:33:50Z")
**Mangeorge** , ol’ buddy, I just gotta know more about that sig of yours. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/15 "2007-12-08T23:56:19Z")
[QUOTE=LSLGuy] **Mangeorge** , ol’ buddy, I just gotta know more about that sig of yours. [/QUOTE] A friend I work with, about my own age (62), and I were outside when a fashionably scrawny (boyish IMO), 20ish, girl\* walked by. He made some typically male lustful remarks and asked for my agreement. I said, “John, I don’t want to boink her (really sophisticated of me, huh?), I just want to feed her a cheeseburger”. I guess that was my “inner grampa” talking, but I’m really not very attracted to malnourished girls\*. Or youngsters. \*I don’t think of grown female persons as “girls”, but many will get all huffy if you call them “women”. Even though that’s exactly what they are. But that’s just me. 😛 Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/16 "2007-12-09T08:12:26Z")
I doubt any viewers actually thought they were literally about to get run over by the train on the screen. Such foolishness would have been way too unsophisticated for a French audience. But the scene probably did cause a visceral reaction, such as other scenes do today, as some audience members might have found that unpleasant enough to have left the theatre. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trains-coming-at-you/429175/17 "2007-12-09T09:32:03Z")
_Elevated Train, 23rd Street, New York_ (1896), a view of a train pulling into the station, wrote the _Boston Herald_, was “so realistic as to give those in front seats a genuine start.”