# The transgendered can now enlist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 11, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227 "2017-12-11T20:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/1 "2017-12-11T20:00:28Z")
Defying Trump, [the U.S. military says to the transgendered “Uncle Sam wants you,too!”](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/transgender-people-enlist-military-jan-181029241.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews) Yes! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/2 "2017-12-11T20:42:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yes! When do you ship out? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/3 "2017-12-11T21:03:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > When do you ship out? [Neidermeyer]What kind of army would take a ‘man’ like you?[/Neidermeyer] ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/4 "2017-12-11T21:10:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Defying Trump, [the U.S. military says to the transgendered “Uncle Sam wants you,too!”](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/transgender-people-enlist-military-jan-181029241.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews) > > Yes! Is Trunp tired of winning yet? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/5 "2017-12-11T21:15:20Z")
I can’t wait to see TrumpTweets about this one. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/6 "2017-12-11T21:19:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I can’t wait to see TrumpTweets about this one. Now that I think about it, I’m sure he no longer gives a damn. Like the wall. He’s moved on. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/7 "2017-12-11T21:41:05Z")
“US Military in tatters! Fake News chitter-chatter. It’s all shattered! People hungry for success! Shadoobie, my brain’s been battered!” -RealDonaldTrump ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/8 "2017-12-11T23:43:18Z")
nm. for now. brb. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/9 "2017-12-11T23:50:30Z")
“In sum, having carefully considered all of the evidence before it, the Court is not persuaded that Defendants will be irreparably injured by allowing the accession of transgender individuals into the military beginning on January 1, 2018,” Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly said in her ruling. > **[DOJ appeals ruling that transgender people are free to enlist in US military...](https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/politics/us-pentagon-transgender-enlist/index.html)** > > The Pentagon said it will begin processing transgender applicants to the military on January 1 after a federal judge declined on Monday to put the deadline on hold. I’ll submit a subtitle for this thread: Courts Tell Trump To Go Jump In A Lake, Again. Or: Courts Dismissively Rule That Trump Should Be Made To Pound Fucking Sand. Again. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/10 "2017-12-12T00:31:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Defying Trump, [the U.S. military says to the transgendered “Uncle Sam wants you,too!”](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/transgender-people-enlist-military-jan-181029241.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews) > > Yes! Not defying Trump. Following a court order. I’m sure the administration will take the appeal higher. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/11 "2017-12-12T00:55:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not defying Trump. Following a court order. I’m sure the administration will take the appeal higher. Certainly defying Trump’s stated wishes as he declared them on his official channel. Strange coming from the guy who previously supported same sex marriage and abortion on demand, other things, but here we are. I’m humbled by the service of anyone who chooses to join the US military or Coast Guard; they’re patriots in word and deed, what do we care what’s in their underwear? They don’t ask about what’s in ours before volunteering. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/12 "2017-12-12T16:14:34Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Certainly defying Trump’s stated wishes as he declared them on his official channel. Strange coming from the guy who previously supported same sex marriage and abortion on demand, other things, but here we are. > > I’m humbled by the service of anyone who chooses to join the US military or Coast Guard; they’re patriots in word and deed, what do we care what’s in their underwear? They don’t ask about what’s in ours before volunteering. The DoD is not defying anything. Secretary Mattis is not starting a coup. Trump did not order them to ignore the court order so they are simply following the law. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/13 "2017-12-12T18:19:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The DoD is not defying anything. Secretary Mattis is not starting a coup. Trump did not order them to ignore the court order so they are simply following the law. So they’re agreeing w/ Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/14 "2017-12-12T18:42:52Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > So they’re agreeing w/ Trump? With the Trump Administration? Of course. They are part of the Executive Branch. The administration is following the law. One part of the Executive Branch is following the law by considering its future legal appeals and the other part is following the law by making plans to implement the court order. There is no coup. Sorry. You want to chose to think that Mattis is defiantly telling Trump to go shit in his hat go ahead. It’s not the case. Using the word “defy” says that the military is countermanding the orders of the Commander in Chief. That is in no way what is happening. Obviously things are not going the way Trump personally wants it to but the only people defying him are federal judges and they are acting within their powers. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/15 "2017-12-12T18:46:27Z")
Give a second to think about this. What is worse, a ban on transgendered enlistments or a military that ignores their oaths and refuses the orders of the civilians that are elected and appointed over them? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/16 "2017-12-12T20:17:24Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > With the Trump Administration? Of course. They are part of the Executive Branch. The administration is following the law. One part of the Executive Branch is following the law by considering its future legal appeals and the other part is following the law by making plans to implement the court order. There is no coup. Sorry. > > You want to chose to think that Mattis is defiantly telling Trump to go shit in his hat go ahead. It’s not the case. Using the word “defy” says that the military is countermanding the orders of the Commander in Chief. That is in no way what is happening. Obviously things are not going the way Trump personally wants it to but the only people defying him are federal judges and they are acting within their powers. I don’t ‘want to chose to think’ Mattis is doing anything but obeying lawful orders. As it happens, in this instance the lawful order defies the stated wishes of Trump. There’s no hierarchy of bad, there’s just bad - be it a ban that violates the employment rights of a protected class or a disobedient military; I assure you I’ve thought about this for more than a second and don’t appreciate your patronizing implication that I haven’t simply b/c I’m not agreeing w/ you. I don’t do that to you, **Loach** , don’t do it to me. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/17 "2017-12-12T21:46:45Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I don’t ‘want to chose to think’ Mattis is doing anything but obeying lawful orders. As it happens, in this instance the lawful order defies the stated wishes of Trump. > > There’s no hierarchy of bad, there’s just bad - be it a ban that violates the employment rights of a protected class or a disobedient military; I assure you I’ve thought about this for more than a second and don’t appreciate your patronizing implication that I haven’t simply b/c I’m not agreeing w/ you. I don’t do that to you, **Loach** , don’t do it to me. Of course there is a hierarchy of bad. Pauly Shore and Pol Pot are not equally bad. Denying employment rights is not as bad as destroying the foundation of the government since that will lead to much more bad. I’m not patronizing you. I am genuinely confused as to why you and first Czarcasm are choosing to use your own definition of the word defy. If the military actually defied the sitting president it would be an extremely bad thing. Just like if they defied the court order. It may play into the fantasies of some to have members of his own administration thumbing their nose at Trump but that’s not what is happening. Now if he ordered the DoD to ignore the court order and continue with the ban and the Secretary refused that would be defiance. And it would cause a crisis that would be horrible for everyone. If I were actually patronizing you I would quote the dictionary but I’m not doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/18 "2017-12-12T22:04:24Z")
One could argue that Mattis is not committing a coup, but defying one, and that it’s Trump who was attempting the coup. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/19 "2017-12-12T23:58:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One could argue that Mattis is not committing a coup, but defying one, and that it’s Trump who was attempting the coup. In what way? At least yet anyway. So far the administration has followed the appeals procedures. I’m certainly not going to say that at some point he won’t try to defy the court order because I will never try to predict what he will do. So far that’s not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/20 "2017-12-13T01:47:24Z")
Well, I’m not saying it’s a particularly strong argument (at least, not yet), and it’s not one I’m making. But if one is arguing that there is a coup here somewhere, one could claim it’s on either side. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227.md?page=2)