# The transgendered can now enlist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 11, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227 "2017-12-11T20:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/21 "2017-12-13T10:45:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Now if he ordered the DoD to ignore the court order and continue with the ban and the Secretary refused that would be defiance. And it would cause a crisis that would be horrible for everyone. The court told them not to do it. If Trump tells them to do it, he is giving an unlawful order, and they have a full on duty to disobey. They have zero loyalty to the president, and all loyalty to the government of the United States. The President is not above the law. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/22 "2017-12-13T13:05:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Of course there is a hierarchy of bad. Pauly Shore and Pol Pot are not equally bad. I agree. But how are you ranking them? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/23 "2017-12-13T13:45:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The court told them not to do it. If Trump tells them to do it, he is giving an unlawful order, and they have a full on duty to disobey. They have zero loyalty to the president, and all loyalty to the government of the United States. > > The President is not above the law. Of course the military owes loyalty to the president. It’s right there in the the oath of enlistment. “… and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me…” Don’t follow an unlawful order sounds simple but not in this case. You don’t have one private deciding for themselves if the order the captain gave them is lawful. Instead you have the entire DoD deciding on their own if the order of the Commander in Chief is lawful. It’s not the Secretary of Defense saying we can’t follow the order because it’s unlawful and that’s the end of it. Maybe he fires the SecDef. Maybe he fires a bunch of under secretaries. Even flag officers. Down to recruiters and Drill Sergeants. It would be a giant mess. Worse than anything Trump has done yet by far. I would hope that would cause impeachment but that wouldn’t happen instantly and there would be a lot of damage done before that. I have very little faith in Trump doing the right thing but I hope having a bunch of retired military around him will keep him from making an illegal order. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/24 "2017-12-13T13:47:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I agree. But how are you ranking them? Did you see Jury Duty? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227/25 "2017-12-13T15:03:51Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Did you see Jury Duty? Ahhh, Pol had his good side. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-transgendered-can-now-enlist/804227.md?page=1)