# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/181 "2018-02-16T18:49:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Can you read? Just because the Pit allows one to act like a savage doesn’t mean one is compelled to. And it’s weird that you identify being grown as being abrasive, vulgar, and unhinged. I’m more worried about people like you on the loose and behind the wheel than a random inanimate object. Half of your posts in the Pit are whining about civility and language. If it bothers you so much that you need a daily spell on your fainting couch and a call to the doctor for the vapours, why do you come back? > [@octopus](#): > > Being a nasty, bitter, old hag isn’t a requirement for posting in the Pit. Never mind, you’re a whiny hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/182 "2018-02-16T18:49:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe I’ve been looking in the wrong places, but I haven’t heard or read “Now is not the time” this time, or the last few, either. Thoughts ‘n’ Prayers, yes, a gutsful. Same here. Anyone who thinks America’s gun problem will be on the top of our minds next week is living in a different world than me. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/183 "2018-02-16T18:51:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The power of christ compels you to act like a savage!! The Strawberriest found your ‘t’? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/184 "2018-02-16T19:04:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The Strawberriest found your ‘t’? Read the bible, you fucking savage. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/185 "2018-02-16T19:06:30Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Half of your posts in the Pit are whining about civility and language. If it bothers you so much that you need a daily spell on your fainting couch and a call to the doctor for the vapours, why do you come back? “You don’t really come here for the hunting, do you?” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/186 "2018-02-16T19:07:12Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m willing to have a discussion about who gets to have guns after the second amendment is repealed. So, until then, guns for everyone? Most americans don’t want the 2nd amendment repealed. But, most americans want some sort of sensible regulation on guns. If you insist that the only way to even have a discussion about sensible gun regulations is to repeal the 2nd, then _you_ are going to change the minds of the americans who don’t want to see it repealed. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/187 "2018-02-16T19:14:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You know what this nut did or was thinking how? And deranged, potty mouthed, hysterical loons like yourself are what’s contributing to this society being, in many ways, dysfunctional. As opposed to deranged, clean mouthed, hysterical loons like you? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/188 "2018-02-16T19:16:54Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Half of your posts in the Pit are whining about civility and language. If it bothers you so much that you need a daily spell on your fainting couch and a call to the doctor for the vapours, why do you come back? Personally, I thoroughly enjoy it whenever **octopus** pops up in the Pit wearing his caftan and flower headband preaching the gospel of phony politesse, and gets pelted in the face with handfuls of excrement. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/189 "2018-02-16T19:22:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe I’ve been looking in the wrong places, but I haven’t heard or read “Now is not the time” this time, or the last few, either. Thoughts ‘n’ Prayers, yes, a gutsful. Tomi Lahren bitched that the Left couldn’t even give families 24 hours to grieve- survivors tore into her. [![](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/5ed337d3d3b566dcebce2d097db89db8.jpg) ](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/5ed337d3d3b566dcebce2d097db89db8.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/190 "2018-02-16T19:23:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Personally, I thoroughly enjoy it whenever **octopus** pops up in the Pit wearing his caftan and flower headband preaching the gospel of phony politesse, and gets pelted in the face with handfuls of excrement. Oddly, it seems he does too. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/191 "2018-02-16T19:26:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … > > If you insist that the only way to even have a discussion about sensible gun regulations is to repeal the 2nd, then _you_ are going to change the minds of the americans who don’t want to see it repealed. Talk of repeal is really only in response to the gun manufacturing lobby’s successful arguments that any regulation is a slippery slope to teh gub’mint taking away people’s guns. I think amending the amendment to make clear bearing arms is subject to reasonable restrictions and safety checks would be better. Still not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/192 "2018-02-16T19:31:00Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > IJust sayin. I live “in the country” where most of my neighbors own guns. I do not know anyone who collects them, or who owns AKs or the like. If getting rid of my 2 guns would stop kids being shot down in school I’d happily give them up, but until then I’m happy knowing that if I need one I have one. Not trying to mean, but I’m don’t understand the relevance. Like you, I don’t personally know anyone who collects guns, but I know that many people do. Not just out in the country, but in urban and suburban areas too. The Vegas shooter was such as collector, and as far as I know, he wasn’t living in the boondocks and up until the shooting, was perceived as a normal person who just liked guns a lot. I don’t personally know anyone who owns an assault rifle, but I know that many people do. Not just out in the country, but in urban and suburban areas too. Cruz owned an assault rifle (not just a mundane hunting tool), and it apparently was treated as no big deal by the people voluntarily sheltering him. And I’m saying, WTF? That right there is a sign we’re off our collective kilter. So bottom line, I’m not saying you need to give up your hunting guns, dude. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/193 "2018-02-16T20:22:31Z")
Found [The demographics of gun ownership in the U.S. | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/) article that is relevant. Interesting finding: > [@](#): > > Gun owners are far more likely than non-gun owners to say people in their community look at most gun owners in a positive way; 78% of gun owners say this is the case, compared with 53% of non-gun owners. Assessments vary between gun owners and those who don’t own guns across community types, but differences are particularly pronounced among those who live in urban or suburban areas. You can’t infer cause and effect from this, but it does support make you wonder. Are people more opt to buy guns when a sense of social status or acceptance come with the purchase? Annnnd…if someone especially low in status and acceptance sees guns as the way to feel better about themselves, are they more likely to use that gun against someone compared to someone who derives status and acceptance elsewhere? If we made it so that guns stopped being a reliable source a status and acceptance, perhaps–just perhaps–those with low self-esteem would find other solutions for their emotional needs. Like lifting weights. Here’s another finding from the study: > [@](#): > > Most gun owners (66%) say they own more than one gun, with about three\*\*-in-ten (29%) saying they own five or more guns. \*\* These are the people who keep gun manufacturers in business and gun retailers plentiful. What would happen if we made it really, really expensive to buy these things, so that owning any more than a basic handgun would be seen as a gigantic waste of money? Would we still have almost 30% of gun owners with 5 or more guns? I doubt it. What it would also mean is that people like Cruz would have to go well out of their way to find a gun store, assuming he could even afford to buy anything in it. We could do all of this without repealing the 2nd amendment, yall. We just need the political will. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/194 "2018-02-16T20:31:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Why repeal it? I suspect an “all or nothing” is going on. The other Amendments have enumerated inalienable rights that still somehow manage to have limits, why not the 2nd? We must repeal it because we cannot have reasonable regulation with it. The gun-lovers have removed the middle ground and given us the choice: “all or nothing”. So I choose “nothing”: **Repeal the Second Amendment**. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, until then, guns for everyone? > > Most americans don’t want the 2nd amendment repealed. > > But, most americans want some sort of sensible regulation on guns. > > If you insist that the only way to even have a discussion about sensible gun regulations is to repeal the 2nd, then _you_ are going to change the minds of the americans who don’t want to see it repealed. We already have guns for everyone–that’s the status quo. Yes, the goal is to change the mind of Americans who don’t want to see it repealed. I was one of them until yesterday. The gun-lovers have given us their ultimatum: any gun regulation is a slippery slope to a complete gun ban. Okay then: let’s slide. **Repeal the Second Amendment.** ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/195 "2018-02-16T20:47:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > … > > Tsk tsk. I’ll post where I want to and how I want to. Being a nasty, bitter, old hag isn’t a requirement for posting in the Pit. Potty mouth. Do you know what you get when you cross batshit crazy ideology with internet access and no parental supervision? Ya get a big kid that can’t figure out whether trolling is an art form or a death match. You are lucky it’s not the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/196 "2018-02-16T20:51:44Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Being a nasty, bitter, old hag isn’t a requirement for posting in the Pit. Well fuck, **now** they tell me. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/197 "2018-02-16T20:58:14Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Do you know what you get when you cross batshit crazy ideology with internet access and no parental supervision? > > Ya get a big kid that can’t figure out whether trolling is an art form or a death match. You are lucky it’s not the latter. And it’s a pity he is failing at the former. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/198 "2018-02-16T21:40:18Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > We must repeal it because we cannot have reasonable regulation with it. The gun-lovers have removed the middle ground and given us the choice: “all or nothing”. So I choose “nothing”: **Repeal the Second Amendment**. > > We already have guns for everyone–that’s the status quo. > > Yes, the goal is to change the mind of Americans who don’t want to see it repealed. I was one of them until yesterday. The gun-lovers have given us their ultimatum: any gun regulation is a slippery slope to a complete gun ban. Okay then: let’s slide. **Repeal the Second Amendment.** Ah, I apologize, I took your earlier comment to be a challenge, as it has been thrown out that way on these boards often enough, as in, as long as 2a is there, you don’t need to have that discussion. I agree. I think that if we could come to some reasonable compromise about gun laws while keeping the second, then that’s great. If the second prevents reasonable gun laws from even being discussed, then it’s time to discuss ridding ourselves of that archaic, badly written, ambiguous line of text, and replace it with something that makes sense. Personally, I like something like “The federal govt will make no laws concerning man bearable arms, and will only work to enforce state laws at their request.” I’m open to changes though. Or we could go with “Carrying a gun is a capital crime.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/199 "2018-02-16T22:23:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The Strawberriest found your ‘t’? Wow, that’s an old board reference. What name were you using back then? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/200 "2018-02-16T22:35:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, until the next school massacre. > > And then the focus will shift until the next one. And once again, Trump, Rubio, Ryan, Ted Cruz, etc etc etc will trot out the old “it’s too soon after this latest tragedy to discuss this and ermahgerd libruls are politicizing it”. While cashing those NRA checks. and pandering to a base that every day more closely resembles the bastard child of the Dominionists and the Nazi party. As one student said, “I don’t want your condolences you fucking price of shit, my friends and teachers were shot. Multiple of my fellow classmates are dead. Do something instead of sending prayers. Prayers won’t fix this. But Gun control will prevent it from happening again.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=11)