# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/301 "2018-02-18T18:06:49Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > The odd thing is, he’s free to walk away from the board at any time and not have to deal with any of this ever again. Anyone who takes any kind of beating on any message board can do so. > > The Internet is a funny place. And let the cyber bullies have all the fun? > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Quite. That’s not how that works. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/302 "2018-02-18T18:36:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Quite. > [@octopus](#): > > That’s not how that works. Maybe try quiet. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/303 "2018-02-18T18:54:31Z")
My comment on this in another thread… > [@Is mental health the real problem when it comes to mass shootings?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mental-health-the-real-problem-when-it-comes-to-mass-shootings/808933/88): > > What exactly are the FBI supposed to do? Put EVERYONE who is a violence-celebrating ass online, or associates with supremacist militia groups, or is known around their social circle being an obnoxious asshat under direct constant surveillance? (OK, I could see association with supremacist militia groups being a reason to take you downtown and let you know we’re watching, _but that would just encourage the putzes_) People seem to expect the authorities to go full on Minority Report on Bad People, and that’s not how reality works, they have to triage the tips they get. I wonder what’s the ratio of people reported to the FBI for being Internet F\*ckwads vs. those who do take concrete steps to act criminally. Or do we make expulsion from school for disciplinary causes a reason to place a marker on you background check against owning firearms for 5, 10 years, permanently? > This is an incredibly complicated issue and it makes the population very nervous in that it seems the violent loon element in America has taken a disturbing turn in how they regard the “soft target” scenario. The serial killer of the 20th century, clandestinely picking off one or two at a time over a few months or years, has been replaced with the binge killer slaying by the dozens at once as the looming menace out there. And they are not even doing conventional Domestic Terrorism with an identifiable policy goal like the old KKK or Macheteros. There is a certain nihilism to it, like they just want to prove society can’t protect you and \*“sure, I’m a loser; but those concertgoers/worshippers/schoolkids are now all dead, ha ha, fat lotta good did living right do them!!”. \* I strongly suspect many of these fellows \*\*\*want \*\*\*society to degenerate into the Hobbesian war of all upon all, with “at all times the fear of violent death” hanging over everyone’s head – if they have no peace, let no one have it. BTW in case someone gets confused, that sentence at the end of my first paragraph is not a serious proposal, it’s an example of something that would not work IRL. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/304 "2018-02-18T20:00:45Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > My comment on this in another thread… > > BTW in case someone gets confused, that sentence at the end of my first paragraph is not a serious proposal, it’s an example of something that would not work IRL. We need to lock up every male between the ages of 14 and 35. I think that would reduce the number of spree killings by at least 90%. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/305 "2018-02-18T20:07:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And let the cyber bullies have all the fun? > > That’s not how that works. I’m guessing that when you told your mommy about all the swearing going on she told you to shut the fuck up and grow a pair, didn’t she? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/306 "2018-02-18T21:11:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m guessing that when you told your mommy about all the swearing going on she told you to shut the fuck up and grow a pair, didn’t she? My “mommy?” What are you 8? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/307 "2018-02-18T21:16:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > My “mommy?” What are you 8? Why? Looking for a playdate? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/308 "2018-02-18T21:28:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s not how that works. Yes it is. Don’t need to say much to point out a good self-own. And yours was first class. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/309 "2018-02-19T01:29:10Z")
I’ve been very cynical about the future of this country, but this morning I saw strength in one of the unlikeliest of places: today’s youth. Simply put, they’ve had enough of this shit. Their bullshit detectors are going off and they’re not going to accept “Thoughts and prayers,” “#Parkland-strong,” or silly-assed yellow or black ribbons. I see people who are pissed off and who want to actually do something about the problem. The gun rights activists, with their silly-assed exercises in mental gymnastics and their reverence for colonial-era thinking, have defended gun rights in much the same manner that people used to defend the geo-centric model of the Universe. I have warned these people that the time would come when people just might get fed up with their shit and seek an extreme over-reaction and enact strict gun regulations. And today I get the sense that the next 20-40 years could see just that. We’ve got a generation of children that have grown up with mass slaughter and they’re fucking sick of it – and sorry, republitards, but they’re not buying “thoughts and prayers” any more. Pretty soon, these people will be your middle managers, your CEOS, your startup entrepreneurs, your mayors, your doctors, your lawyers, your prosecutors, your circuit judges, your soldiers, your commanders, your generals, your governors, your representatives, your insurance commissioners, and one day, your senators, and even your president. Maybe it’s time to think of a different message, then? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/310 "2018-02-19T01:37:38Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And let the cyber bullies have all the fun? > > That’s not how that works. In other words, you’re just here to troll. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/311 "2018-02-19T01:46:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > In other words, you’re just here to troll. So, not being bullied off a forum is trolling now? Forgive my language, but that’s a new level of hypocritical dingbattery. Even for you. Now run off to your snark hive and confer with your fellow real trolls to come up with some better material. Hopefully something with at least the tiniest amount of logic. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/312 "2018-02-19T02:18:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’ve been very cynical about the future of this country, but this morning I saw strength in one of the unlikeliest of places: today’s youth. > > Simply put, they’ve had enough of this shit. Their bullshit detectors are going off and they’re not going to accept “Thoughts and prayers,” “#Parkland-strong,” or silly-assed yellow or black ribbons. I see people who are pissed off and who want to actually do something about the problem. > > The gun rights activists, with their silly-assed exercises in mental gymnastics and their reverence for colonial-era thinking, have defended gun rights in much the same manner that people used to defend the geo-centric model of the Universe … Nicely said. A new generation and a new way of thinking is probably the best hope of ending the madness. When Americans look at other countries with respect to guns, they see places with strong gun restrictions and not a lot of guns, and while this is true, it kind of misses the point. There wouldn’t – and couldn’t – be strong gun laws if people in free democracies didn’t want strong gun laws. The real underlying attribute that characterizes all these other countries is a lack of _ **interest** _ in guns, either as alleged necessities for “protection”, or as proof of masculine virility, or to pursue to the terrifically fun hobby of blowing holes in things – or to support the psychotic delusion that any day now it may be your patriotic responsibility to overthrow the federal government. One can only hope that this new generation will eventually replace and override these aging psychopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/313 "2018-02-19T02:27:49Z")
Boy, did those kids give Trump what for over his [crap tweet storm blaming the FBI](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-trump-students/student-survivors-of-florida-shooting-slam-trump-over-fbi-tweets-idUSKCN1G20VO). (Reuters) This old fogey will march with them on the 24th of March. So proud of them. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/314 "2018-02-19T02:29:06Z")
Remember that even the NRA’s current absolutist opposition to all forms of gun control is less than fifty years old. Until 1970 or so, they supported reasonable gun control measures. So if they could change their minds on this issue, so can everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/315 "2018-02-19T02:35:10Z")
These kids are merely parroting sentiments that have been fed to them by leftie educators. Further, the media, in its typical left-wing bias, is only reporting on them and not the ones who realize the problem in with people in today’s society and not guns. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/316 "2018-02-19T02:40:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > These kids are merely parroting sentiments that have been fed to them by leftie educators. Further, the media, in its typical left-wing bias, is only reporting on them and not the ones who realize the problem in with people in today’s society and not guns. Speaking of aging psychopaths … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/317 "2018-02-19T02:49:17Z")
The “Guns as a Safeguard of Liberty” argument is an obvious loser, to the point where it’s utterly unconvincing unless you take the conclusion as axiomatic. It’s on the level of saying “Gays can’t get married because marriage is a union of one man and one woman” or similar. It’s also fatally weakened by posts from people like **Noborry** who want to gut the First Amendment to save the Second. _That_ kind of thinking is destructive of Liberty and anti-American, and kind of tips the hand of the pro-gun side. The only two _arguments_ (not _whines_) I can see in favor of the current level of gun control come down to two things: Killing criminals and killing varmints. (To make it absolutely, _painfully_ clear: Anything which begins with “BU BU BU MUH SECOND UHMENDMENT” is a _whine_. Take it, fold it pointy-side out, and kill the stupid in your brain by ramming it up your colon. Jurisprudence can change, sometimes quite radically, in a few decades, and the post-_Heller_ world is no more permanent than the pre-_Heller_ one was.) Both of those have some suasion to them, and if it weren’t for Australia, which is even emptier than America with even worse animals, they might actually be persuasive. That said, the ongoing vast shift in the War on Drugs is destroying a major reason there are criminals to begin with, and, despite the droning idiocy from the trolls, nobody wants to take _all_ of the guns. The people who have to defend livestock, for example, will have them. Speaking of trolls, I’ve noted that nobody arguing in favor of the current level of gun control _isn’t_ a troll. Now whine at me for stating the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/318 "2018-02-19T02:55:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > These kids are merely parroting sentiments that have been fed to them by leftie educators. Further, the media, in its typical left-wing bias, is only reporting on them and not the ones who realize the problem in with people in today’s society and not guns. I hear Ms. Gonzales had the nerve to appear in public without an escort, too. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/319 "2018-02-19T02:56:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > These kids are merely parroting sentiments that have been fed to them by leftie educators. Further, the media, in its typical left-wing bias, is only reporting on them and not the ones who realize the problem in with people in today’s society and not guns. These kids didn’t watch their friends and teachers bleed to death on CNN; they saw their bodies go limp and the pools of their blood right in front of them. You’re dumb as a fucking rock to post what you’ve written above, and if anyone is being fed, it’s you. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/320 "2018-02-19T02:58:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > These kids are merely parroting sentiments that have been fed to them by leftie educators. Further, the media, in its typical left-wing bias, is only reporting on them and not the ones who realize the problem in with people in today’s society and not guns. You are a fucking disgrace. A waste of fucking oxygen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=17)