# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/361 "2018-02-19T18:26:56Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’ve been very cynical about the future of this country, but this morning I saw strength in one of the unlikeliest of places: today’s youth. > > Simply put, they’ve had enough of this shit. Their bullshit detectors are going off and they’re not going to accept “Thoughts and prayers,” “#Parkland-strong,” or silly-assed yellow or black ribbons. I see people who are pissed off and who want to actually do something about the problem. > > The gun rights activists, with their silly-assed exercises in mental gymnastics and their reverence for colonial-era thinking, have defended gun rights in much the same manner that people used to defend the geo-centric model of the Universe. I have warned these people that the time would come when people just might get fed up with their shit and seek an extreme over-reaction and enact strict gun regulations. And today I get the sense that the next 20-40 years could see just that. We’ve got a generation of children that have grown up with mass slaughter and they’re fucking sick of it – and sorry, republitards, but they’re not buying “thoughts and prayers” any more. Pretty soon, these people will be your middle managers, your CEOS, your startup entrepreneurs, your mayors, your doctors, your lawyers, your prosecutors, your circuit judges, your soldiers, your commanders, your generals, your governors, your representatives, your insurance commissioners, and one day, your senators, and even your president. Maybe it’s time to think of a different message, then? They’ve also lost those of us who USED TO BE at least a little sympathetic. They refusal to accept anything at ALL (and their threats to start shooting if they don’t get their way), really “fucked the rooster”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/362 "2018-02-19T18:32:05Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > [Assault rifle giveaway to support third graders still on.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/youth-basketball-team-to-hold-ar-15-raffle/) Unbelievable. Of course, whoever wins the rifle has to submit to any required background check…[Oopsy!](https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/missouri-gun-laws) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/363 "2018-02-19T18:32:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > How about a cite for this? You’ve been saying this shit for years, but you have yet to offer any proof of it. Give it up, I showed that yahoo this item that showed how much higher violent crime was before the 60’s or 70’s months or years ago and he just happily ignored it: [http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/](http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/) Point being that he is just relying on his very, very, very limited experience and wilful ignorance. But what took place in those days too? The NRA [stopped supporting gun control](http://time.com/4431356/nra-gun-control-history/)and started to become a mouth piece of the gun lobby. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/364 "2018-02-19T18:32:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > These kids are merely parroting sentiments that have been fed to them by leftie educators. Further, the media, in its typical left-wing bias, is only reporting on them and not the ones who realize the problem in with people in today’s society and not guns. I used to laugh at you, but now I regard you as filth. You’re seriously blaming the tragedy on liberal boogeymen and accusing the students who saw their friends die of being brainwashed. You have absolutely no idea of life outside your conspiracy bubble and attribute mass shootings to liberal bias. You have sucked yourself dry of any empathy because of your blind hate. You sad, pathetic germ. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/365 "2018-02-19T18:37:12Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What kind of deranged monster thinks it’s okay to discredit the agency of survivors, in demanding change/action, because it conflicts with their own entirely partisan political beliefs? > > What kind of human thinks it’s okay to discredit the words and actions of these young survivors, as they express their pain and demand action? > > (If he counts himself a Christian, of any stripe, he should be drummed from his church in my opinion.) Christian you say??? _Matthew 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were **better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea**._ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/366 "2018-02-19T20:11:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Mockery of thoughts and prayers is a recent tactic cooked up by the left to advance their agenda of gun control. Recent? Try 2700 years old, and cooked up by either the Lord God, or the prophet Isaiah, depending on whether one believes that the OT prophets were, in fact, prophets. Because today’s reading is from the book of Isaiah, chapter 1, verses 11 through 17: > [@Isaiah](#): > > Your countless sacrifices, what are they to me? says the Lord. > I am sated with whole-offerings of rams and the fat of buffaloes; > I have no desire for the blood of bulls, of sheep and of he-goats. > Whenever you come to enter my presence - who asked you for this? > No more shall you trample my courts. > The offer of your gifts is useless, the reek of sacrifice is abhorrent to me. > New moons and sabbaths and assemblies, sacred seasons and ceremonies, > I cannot endure. > I cannot tolerate your new moons and your festivals; > they have become a burden to me, and I can put up with them no longer. > When you lift your hands outspread in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you. > Though you offer countless prayers, I will not listen. > There is blood on your hands; wash yourselves and be clean. > Put away the evil of your deeds, away out of my sight. > Cease to do evil and learn to do right, > pursue justice and champion the oppressed; > give the orphan his rights, plead the widow’s cause. “If you could do something about this slaughter but you don’t, then fuck your thoughts and prayers” is totally within the spirit of this passage. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/367 "2018-02-19T20:22:00Z")
Verses 1-10 where the populace is being chastised for no longer living according to God’s will is also needed for context. But yes, useless symbolism shouldn’t take the place of proper action. Now what do you propose that proper action to be? I’d be for tighter gun control. Much tighter actually. Then it would need to be properly enforced. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/368 "2018-02-19T20:46:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Verses 1-10 where the populace is being chastised for no longer living according to God’s will is also needed for context. > > But yes, useless symbolism shouldn’t take the place of proper action. Now what do you propose that proper action to be? > > I’d be for tighter gun control. Much tighter actually. Then it would need to be properly enforced. Sounds like we’re in general agreement, then, modulo of course the specifics of ‘much tighter’ gun control. As you may have noticed, in these threads I’ve been saying that weapons of mass slaughter - weapons that are capable of killing a shitload of people in a hurry - have no place in civilian life. They should be banned. Confiscated and destroyed. Once the law spells out which guns are so categorized, there should be a grace period of a year or two for turning them in, after which possession of such weapons would be a felony. There should be mandatory registration for legal guns. Aside from hunting, guns don’t belong out in public. Open carry should be outlawed, aside from the use of hunting rifles in designated hunting areas in season. And that would include on your own property, within sight of your neighbor’s property or of the street: you don’t get to wave your gun around outside where other people can see it. If you’ve got a gun to protect you and yours against the boogeyman, keep it inside where it belongs. Concealed carry should require a permit, to be issued only upon showing of a clear need. There’s my ‘tight gun control.’ I’d be interested in your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/369 "2018-02-19T21:12:03Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It’s true! > > Al Capone, Frank Nitti and Dutch Schulz, Bonnie and Clyde, John Dillinger, the Klan, the Bund, racist skinheads, dominionism, neoConfederate, neoNazi, the Lincoln County wars, the Hatfields and McCoys, the Kansas-Missouri Border War, etc etc etc > > Those damn dirty hippies caused all the violence and discontent. None of this happened until the Sixties SA: “These damn school bombings weren’t going on in 1960.” SDMB douchebag similar to or actually SteveG1: “Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah? Well, here’s a story showing that a kid set off a Cherry Bomb in class in 1953! So what about that, huh…huh?” It is to :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/370 "2018-02-19T21:55:32Z")
Lots of assault rifles floating around in 1960? Do you actually write this dumb shit with a straight face? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/371 "2018-02-19T21:57:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yep, sure do. > > There is nothing inherently reflexive in seeing one’s schoolmates shot that results in a reaction of “Fuck your thoughts and prayers”. Mockery of thoughts and prayers is a recent tactic cooked up by the left to advance their agenda of gun control. We haven’t heard this after Columbine or any other mass shootings I’m aware of… So you’re ignorant. What does that have to do with the real world? The “thoughts and prayers” song and dance has been widely mocked for several years now. “Thoughts And Prayers” was the sarcastically chosen title of an episode of a frickin’ cartoon last year. You’re old, bigoted, and stupid, and two of those things are not your fault, but being stupid isn’t a point of view and isn’t worth any sort of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/372 "2018-02-19T22:05:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So you’re ignorant. What does that have to do with the real world? The “thoughts and prayers” song and dance has been widely mocked for several years now. “Thoughts And Prayers” was the sarcastically chosen title of an episode of a frickin’ cartoon last year. Putting a self-serving spin on ‘recent’ I see. Well, uh, sweetheart, Columbine and our other school shootings have been going on much longer than a year. > [@RickJay](#): > > You’re old, bigoted, and stupid, and two of those things are not your fault, but being stupid isn’t a point of view and isn’t worth any sort of respect. No, actually I’m not all that old and am almost always thought by people who know me personally to be much younger than I am. I’m bigoted all right, but mostly against political nutjobbery, and stupid is a relative term. Around here it’s best defined as ‘conservative’, and I accept the accolade proudly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/373 "2018-02-19T22:10:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Putting a self-serving spin on ‘recent’ I see. Well, uh, sweetheart, Columbine and our other school shootings have been going on much longer than a year. > > No, actually I’m not all that old and am almost always thought by people who know me personally to be much younger than I am. Well, there goes one of your excuses. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/374 "2018-02-19T22:17:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Putting a self-serving spin on ‘recent’ I see. “Well, uh, sweetheart,” how about Isaiah? Nothing recent about his words, but they sure fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/375 "2018-02-19T22:25:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, actually I’m not all that old So, is the Promised Land of the 1950s something you actually _remember_, or something you’ve just heard a lot of bullshit about? And the “am almost always thought by people who know me personally to be much younger than I am” part - well, that’s nice, and I’m glad for you, but you’re far from the only one these days. Don’t sprain your wrist patting yourself on the back. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/376 "2018-02-19T22:45:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Putting a self-serving spin on ‘recent’ I see. Well, uh, sweetheart, Columbine and our other school shootings have been going on much longer than a year. Uh, the American public critique of “thoughts and prayers” rhetoric as an insufficient and ineffective substitute for action on gun violence has also been going on much longer than a year. For instance, [this exhortation to “move beyond thoughts and prayers”](https://web.archive.org/web/20070428201334/http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?pid=186561) dates back to the Virginia Tech shooting in 2007. The [NY Daily News “God Isn’t Fixing This” cover](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/top-new-york-daily-news-front-pages-2015-gallery-1.2474213?pmSlide=1.2474175) jeering at the flaccid pieties mouthed by Rand Paul and Ted Cruz etc. is from the San Bernardino shootings in 2015. (And the Daily News endorsed the Presidential campaigns of GW Bush in 2004 and Mitt Romney in 2012 as well as those of Obama in 2008 and Clinton in 2016, so they’re not exactly “liberal media”.) > [@Starving Artist](#): > > No, actually I’m not all that old You were [claiming to be 61 a little over eight years ago](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12091676&postcount=18), which makes you at least 69 now. In other words, yes, you are old. Which in itself, of course, is nothing to be ashamed of, so you needn’t try to duck the label when somebody calls you old. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/377 "2018-02-19T22:49:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So, is the Promised Land of the 1950s something you actually _remember_, or something you’ve just heard a lot of bullshit about? Born in '48 (and no, 69 is not that old), and was 20 years old when the Grand Idiocy really began to assert itself. So I got to spend plenty of time and have plenty of experiences which inform me as to the realities of life during that time. I never once knew of a woman being spanked, I had several who were relatives, who, even though they were married operated their own businesses, owned their own property and damn well had their own bank accounts. Many women of the era thought they had it so good that they resented the actions of so-called feminists of the time who were thought to be screwing up their good thing. Most of what people believe about that time are either exaggerations of genuine ills or history revisionism taught by professors and others with a left-wing agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/378 "2018-02-19T22:55:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Born in '48 (and no, 69 is not that old), and was 20 years old when the Grand Idiocy really began to assert itself. That must have been disappointing, especially after the Grand Idiot had solemnly promised that we wouldn’t have him to kick around any more. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/379 "2018-02-19T22:58:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Born in '48 (and no, 69 is not that old), and was 20 years old when the Grand Idiocy really began to assert itself. So I got to spend plenty of time and have plenty of experiences which inform me as to the realities of life during that time. {…} Aww, someone missed out on the 60s and got stuck with two 50s instead. I are teh sadderest nowz. ☹ CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/380 "2018-02-19T23:41:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Most of what people believe about that time are either exaggerations of genuine ills or history revisionism Nobody here but you is attempting any “exaggeration” or “revisionism” of historical facts. When we point out that murder and burglary rates now are about the same as they were in 1960, that’s historical fact. When we note that domestic violence and racial discrimination were far more normalized in the 1950s than they are now, that’s historical fact. Your personal reminiscences about a small number of your own female relatives don’t change those facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=20)