# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/481 "2018-02-22T05:07:55Z")
[Moderating] **Starving Artist** , don’t change someone’s text inside an attributed quote box. No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/482 "2018-02-22T05:09:47Z")
Also: > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Much as I’m sure you’d all love to see me get a warning - and I may - the fact is that I didn’t reword any specific comment, I didn’t use any of the words that **Derleth** spoke, and I replied to his post as a whole, which is why his name comes up in bold above what I did say. This was so it would be apparent as to who “blah, blah, blah” was in response to. Therefore it was and is my opinion that my post did not break the rules about changing quotes in the quote box as I did not change anything **Derleth** said. I merely characterized the post as a whole. So we’ll see. What? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/483 "2018-02-22T06:28:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also: > > What? Oh, that’s his “I don’t have to give a real answer because I can fob you off with whatever floats to the top of my head” response. The rule is clear, he broke it, and he barely thinks he has to respect anyone enough to give even a perfunctory justification for why he broke it. That, or he’s so insulated in his world that he turns all my posts into “blah blah blah” and this time it just slipped through a little more than usual. Personally, I blame the alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/484 "2018-02-22T06:36:55Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Oh, that’s his “I don’t have to give a real answer because I can fob you off with whatever floats to the top of my head” response. The rule is clear, he broke it, and he barely thinks he has to respect anyone enough to give even a perfunctory justification for why he broke it. > > That, or he’s so insulated in his world that he turns all my posts into “blah blah blah” and this time it just slipped through a little more than usual. > > Personally, I blame the alcohol. It’s not the first time he’s been corrected on the rule, either. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17963960&postcount=506](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17963960&postcount=506) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/485 "2018-02-22T12:08:31Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > It’s not the first time he’s been corrected on the rule, either. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17963960&postcount=506](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17963960&postcount=506) Wow. His excuse for altering quotes that time was identical to this time. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/486 "2018-02-22T13:46:43Z")
SA, Buck Godot linked a thread from 8 years ago and it shows you still haven’t changed your tune. Maybe [Fox News’ Shephard Smith](https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-shepard-smith-condemns-baseless-parkland-conspiracy-theories?source=articles_sum&via=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29&yptr=yahoo) can convince you there’s no conspiracy. > [@](#): > > “Those same young men and women dealing with the hate and the baseless accusations on top of the harrowing ordeal they’ve already been through,” Smith told viewers. “It’s unthinkable what is happening to them now. Conspiracy theorists are peddling lies that are the students are simply political pawns, that activists are behind their protests.” Worth a try anyway. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/487 "2018-02-22T14:43:18Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Wow. His excuse for altering quotes that time was identical to this time. Don’t worry, I’m sure _this_ time he’s learned his lesson. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/488 "2018-02-22T15:40:13Z")
Remember back in the 1950s when you could change the quote boxes like a free person enjoying the blessings of a well-ordered society? Goddam hippies fucked ALL that up. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/489 "2018-02-22T18:04:32Z")
I’m guessing the grudge dates back to the night he tried to mack on some groovy flower child and quickly learned that “free love” didn’t mean “no standards.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/490 "2018-02-22T18:52:38Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > … > Personally, I blame the alcohol. No, alcohol only amplifies whatever you already were, by removing the inhibitions and filters. So, if you are a raging asshole when drunk, you already were a raging asshole anyway. The liquor just made you “brave”. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/491 "2018-02-23T00:13:10Z")
I got your good guy with a gun right here: > **[Armed school resource officer stayed outside as Florida shooting unfolded,...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/22/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html)** > > The school resource deputy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, waited outside the school building as the shooting unfolded last week, officials said. (“Good Guy” cop at the school too scared to enter the building during the massacre.) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/492 "2018-02-23T01:13:52Z")
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun _who is willing to die_”. There Mr. LaPierre, I fixed it for you. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/493 "2018-02-23T02:51:53Z")
The high school walkouts are one of the best things I’ve seen in years, but you can bet that conservatives are going to declare war on public education and label them as indoctrination factories. Wouldn’t surprise me if you see movements to seriously defund public school systems in republican states and districts across the country. If the marches become too politically intimidating for the NRA, don’t be surprised if you see education “budget crises” in any GOP-leaning state or district in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/494 "2018-02-23T03:06:50Z")
You mean, more so? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/495 "2018-02-23T03:08:21Z")
On Tuesday, Jack Kingston, a former Republican congressman from Georgia, suggested that the students were being exploited by people like George Soros and other left-wing groups. He [said](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/politics/jack-kingston-parkland-victims-cnntv/index.html), “Do we really think – and I say this sincerely – do we really think that 17-year-olds on their own are going to plan a nationwide rally?” Some have accused the students appearing in the media and at rallies of being “crisis actors”. One student amusingly denied that, [saying to Wolf Blitzer](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/02/22/florida-shooting-survivor-flawlessly-refutes-paid-actor-conspiracy-theory/23368697/), “Well, if you had seen me in our school’s production of ‘Fiddler on the Roof,’ you would know that nobody would pay me to act for anything.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/496 "2018-02-23T03:13:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > On Tuesday, Jack Kingston, a former Republican congressman from Georgia, suggested that the students were being exploited by people like George Soros and other left-wing groups. He [said](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/politics/jack-kingston-parkland-victims-cnntv/index.html), “Do we really think – and I say this sincerely – do we really think that 17-year-olds on their own are going to plan a nationwide rally?” > > Some have accused the students appearing in the media and at rallies of being “crisis actors”. One student amusingly denied that, [saying to Wolf Blitzer](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/02/22/florida-shooting-survivor-flawlessly-refutes-paid-actor-conspiracy-theory/23368697/), “Well, if you had seen me in our school’s production of ‘Fiddler on the Roof,’ you would know that nobody would pay me to act for anything.” I wonder who fed him that line. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/497 "2018-02-23T03:19:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I wonder who fed him that line. > > 😉 I expect the FOX News and Brietbart machine is feeding Kingston most of his talking points. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/498 "2018-02-23T03:40:18Z")
I imagine Blitzer or one of _CNN’s_ other lackeys fed it to him right before the interview. Now, having said that, these students are people who according to many aren’t old enough or mature enough even to be able to decide who to have sex with, and yet here they are being held up by the media and members of a certain political ideology as the people we must listen to for legislation on one of the most important and divisive issues of our time. There is not question that what happened in their school was horrible and traumatic, but it’s not a criticism of them to point out that they are being used and manipulated by the country’s anti-gun forces to bolster calls for gun control. Certainly no group as large as theirs is in lockstep with each other on everything, so where are the students that still support the 2nd amendment? Where are those who recognize that the problem is people, not guns? And where are those who know that there is absolutely no way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and all gun control would do is take them away from law-abiding citizens and make them more vulnerable than ever to armed criminals? You can be sure they exist, so why aren’t we hearing from them? The answer of course is that the liberal MSM doesn’t want us to. They want us to believe that every kid in that school and all their parents are 100% behind gun control. And everybody on both sides knows it. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/499 "2018-02-23T03:58:54Z")
PBS Newshour just interviewed two students who are pro-Second who attended the CPAC meeting today. Should I discount them as too young? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/500 "2018-02-23T04:03:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There is not question that what happened in their school was horrible and traumatic, but it’s not a criticism of them to point out that they are being used and manipulated by the country’s anti-gun forces to bolster calls for gun control. How is it “not a criticism of them” to assert that they’re being manipulated and “fed” lines instead of intelligently formulating their own opinions and their own words? Of course it’s a criticism of them. You may not mean them any ill will, but you are definitely disparaging them. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > so where are the students that still support the 2nd amendment? Well of course, [one of them is currently awaiting trial for having murdered 17 of his former fellow students with an AR-15](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-school-shooting-nikolas-cruz-was-on-rifle-team-that-got-nra-grant/). But I suspect he’s not one of the ones you mean. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > You can be sure they exist, so why aren’t we hearing from them? The answer of course is that the liberal MSM doesn’t want us to. Really? Then naturally you’re hearing from them instead on conservative media, right? If not, why not? Are you conservatives letting the “liberal MSM” dictate what stories your own media outlets cover? In the mainstream-media real world. the fact that there currently are, as there always have been, many students who own guns and/or support gun rights is not news. The fact that a horrific school shooting appears to have catalyzed a newly active and angry response among millions of students to directly agitate for measures against gun violence **is** news. Why shouldn’t that be the focus of the coverage? (Edit: And even so, as **jasg** points out, there **is** some mainstream-media attention being directed to 2nd-Amendment-supporting students. Are you going to retract your sputtering fulminations against the evil “liberal MSM” for suppressing their viewpoint?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=26)