# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/561 "2018-02-24T12:11:23Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > you know a Israeli chick I used to play EQ with said the other day mass shootings in the us is getting to be like what a suicide bombing is there … so common that at some point well just shake our heads regret the fact people died and other than making sure it isn’t you and yours just go on accepting it as inevitable part of daily life Except that Israelis know that it’s government, military, police et al are generally doing their utmost to prevent the next suicide bombing, and that at some point the bad period we’re living through is going to end. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/562 "2018-02-24T13:57:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Don’t know why you’d say that. I have been instructed not to do even what I did, therefore I shan’t. Why would you this time, when you didn’t last time? Unless you don’t \*remember \*the first time…I hear that happens with people of a certain age. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/563 "2018-02-24T14:09:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You decided that ‘mewling quim’ lacked the je ne se quoi you were going for, did you? Did you misspell that on purpose? Cause that’s your thing, right …mangling French phrases in order to shock schoolmarms, so that when you confess you did it on purpose they are charmed by your feistiness ? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/564 "2018-02-24T15:38:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m feisty all the time, homes. And ain’t no Geritol for me. No Viagra either. So you just want online fights all the time? Because you’re “feisty?” btw, go back to using “whippersnapper” instead of “homes.” You can’t pull it off. It’s embarrassing to witness 69-year olds talking street. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Don’t know why you’d say that. I have been instructed not to do even what I did, therefore I shan’t. (That last word is a contraction of the words “shall” and “not”, for the benefit of those of you schooled since the sixties.) I think the majority of people currently living weren’t alive in the sixties, but there’s a lot of things you’re ignorant of or are unwilling to learn, much more than an antiquated term such as “shan’t.” > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yep, same will happen with terrorism too. There’s alway something threatening our health, safety and well-being. It’s just the way the world is wired. Used to be rampaging armies and disease. Then the threat of nuclear war. Now terrorism. Fifty or a hundred years from now it’ll be something else. (Right now a lot of really smart people who ought to know are saying it will be AI.) And then something after that and something else after that. It’s really just threats and peril all the way down. So it’s inevitable and we just may as well accept mass slaughter, eh? So it does no good for liberals to brainwash students, so you don’t have to whine about that any more. By the way, I set up a poll [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=849895) and asked if any Dopers had experiences with educators who tried to influence their political thinking. You know, compiling actual _data_ on which to base your opinions. Give it a read if you’re interested in learning something. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/565 "2018-02-24T16:30:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m feisty all the time, homes. And ain’t no Geritol for me. No Viagra either. Somebody better alert the families in the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/566 "2018-02-24T20:38:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > […] I’m assuming you would count Norway as among those enlightened countries who ‘give a fuck’ about their residents. […] > > On the plus side though he [Breivik] got only 20 years, so clearly they give a fuck about their murderers and who knows, he might even become a ‘productive citizen’ some day and able to carry on like nothing happened. And won’t the family and friends of the 80 people he killed be grateful for that? :rolleyes: This broadcast from the **Starving Artist** cogniverse has been brought to you by promoters of complacent ignorance everywhere. We now return to the real world with [some information about the actual responses of Utoya survivors and victims’ families to Breivik’s sentencing](http://world.time.com/2012/08/27/why-norway-is-satisfied-with-breiviks-sentence/): > [@](#): > > In a case that tested Norway’s proud tradition of liberal justice to its limit, a five-judge panel in Oslo decided anti-Islamic mass killer Anders Behring Breivik was more evil than sick and sentenced him to the maximum 21 years in prison. The decision, coming more than four months after his trial began, was greeted with confused dismay by most overseas observers but was well received by […] the surviving victims, the families of the dead and most of the country. > > For the survivors and the bereaved families, a sane man can now be properly punished […] in the country still profoundly shocked by the July 2011 slaughter, the overwhelming emotion is relief. […] > > Regarded with astonishment from overseas, the 21-year maximum sentence — for detonating a lethal truck bomb and then driving to Utoya Island and shooting, point-blank, 69 people, mostly teenage members of the Labor Party youth wing — remains an important principle of a justice system that believes in rehabilitation over retribution. Bjorn Magnus Ihler, another Utoya survivor, says: “That’s how it should work. That’s staying true to our principles and the best evidence that he hasn’t changed society.” > > But Breivik should not imagine he will ever walk free. If he is still considered dangerous after 21 years, his sentence can be extended in five-year increments for the rest of his life, which is a likely outcome given his glorification of violence, lack of remorse and desire to have killed more people. […] But largely, Breivik can now finally be ignored — which is what Norway has always wanted to do with the stain of his premeditated massacre. > > Mustafa Rashid, father of Bano, the first of the July 22 victims to be buried, and Kjell Fredrik Lie, father of Elisabeth, who was buried last, have both said they would waste no energy hating or even thinking about the terrorist. […] > > In essence, though, Norwegians feel proud that their society is fundamentally unchanged. The scenes of jubilation inside the court attest to the victims’ belief in the country’s liberal justice. And as far as justice can ever be done for a crime this heinous, this is probably it. A plurality of Norwegians wanted Breivik punished for his crimes. But, more than that, in the end they just wanted him gone. The man who stained the rocks and trees of Utoya with the blood of the country’s brightest young people will almost certainly never be free again. At the end of this exhausting trial, that is enough for most. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/567 "2018-02-24T20:51:54Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Did you misspell that on purpose? Cause that’s your thing, right …mangling French phrases in order to shock schoolmarms, so that when you confess you did it on purpose they are charmed by your feistiness ? Jus’ being playful, something you wrongheaded liberal types can’t seem to get a handle on because the world isn’t perfect and you’re outraged. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Unless you don’t remember the first time…I hear that happens with people of a certain age. > [@Knowed Out](#): > > So you just want online fights all the time? Because you’re “feisty?” btw, go back to using “whippersnapper” instead of “homes.” You can’t pull it off. It’s embarrassing to witness 69-year olds talking street. Hmm…more ageism. I’m pretty sure Quincy Jones could and probably does say that without any problem whatsoever. So that makes you both an ageist bigot and a racist bigot. So, one step above Hitler, right? Maybe? Oh, wait, I forgot, bigotry is okay against old white guys. Carry on. (Hard to keep track which of you guys’ hypocrisies gets a pass and which doesn’t.) Anyway, you’d be surprised. They call me J-Dawg and Jimbo Slice at the local 7-11. (Albeit I’ve been warned that my cycling tights occasionally put my street cred in jeopardy. ;)) > [@Knowed Out](#): > > I think the majority of people currently living weren’t alive in the sixties… And yet there’s no shortage of such people around here who feel entitled to tell me exactly how it was. Which, since they’re the victims of historical revisionism with an agenda, bares scant resemblance to reality. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > but there’s a lot of things you’re ignorant of or are unwilling to learn, much more than an antiquated term such as “shan’t.” You guys just really don’t get playful, do ya? > [@Hector the Librarian](#): > > Somebody better alert the families in the neighborhood. Good grief! You’re still here? I thought you must have been fired for not knowing your job and got your electricity turned off. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/568 "2018-02-24T20:59:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This broadcast from the **Starving Artist** cogniverse has been brought to you by promoters of complacent ignorance everywhere. We now return to the real world with [some information about the actual responses of Utoya survivors and victims’ families to Breivik’s sentencing](http://world.time.com/2012/08/27/why-norway-is-satisfied-with-breiviks-sentence/): Yeah, we’re mostly only hearing from students who are gun control advocates too. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a sizable percentage who disagree. Sorry, but I just find it really hard to believe that the families of the 80 people that asshole killed are so brainwashed as to bear their loved ones’ killer no ill will and are happy he gets to spend the next twenty or so years in prison (or in what to you and me would be a hotel). Next you’ll be telling me they’re not only opposed to additional time but are lobbying for early release. Liberals! Bizzarro World doesn’t begin to describe it! ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/569 "2018-02-24T21:00:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Jus’ being playful, something you wrongheaded liberal types can’t seem to get a handle on because the world isn’t perfect and you’re outraged. > > Hmm…more ageism. I’m pretty sure Quincy Jones could and probably does say that without any problem whatsoever. So that makes you both an ageist bigot and a racist bigot. So, one step above Hitler, right? Maybe? > > Oh, wait, I forgot, bigotry is okay against old white guys. Carry on. (Hard to keep track which of you guys’ hypocrisies gets a pass and which doesn’t.) > > Anyway, you’d be surprised. They call me J-Dawg and Jimbo Slice at the local 7-11. (Albeit I’ve been warned that my cycling tights occasionally put my street cred in jeopardy. ;)) > > And yet there’s no shortage of such people around here who feel entitled to tell me exactly how it was. Which, since they’re the victims of historical revisionism with an agenda, bares scant resemblance to reality. > > You guys just really don’t get playful, do ya? > > Good grief! You’re still here? I thought you must have been fired for not knowing your job and got your electricity turned off. When God was passing out jokes, you thought he said tokes, and said, “I’m not no God-forsaken evil Communist hippie pothead that wants to ruin the world, so NO THANK YOU!” To which he replied, “Chill man, have a blunt.” ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/570 "2018-02-24T21:05:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, we’re mostly only hearing from students who are gun control advocates too. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a sizable percentage who disagree. Actually, one of the pro-gun proponents has been in the news for the last couple days - because he lied. Your ranting shitshow is funny in the same way as Trump’s tweetstorms - an interesting look into the cognitive dissonance of an old man and obvious proof that just because you CAN speak, there’s no need to prove yourself the fool to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/571 "2018-02-24T21:15:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sorry, but I just find it really hard to believe that the families of the 80 people that asshole killed are so brainwashed as to bear their loved ones’ killer no ill will and are happy he gets to spend the next twenty or so years in prison (or in what to you and me would be a hotel). Next you’ll be telling me they’re not only opposed to additional time but are lobbying for early release. Just because Norwegians in general love their country more than they hate a mass murderer doesn’t mean that they **like** the mass murderer, or that they want other people to be endangered by him in the future. Nope, no Norwegians (except perhaps some in Norway’s white-nationalist minority who actually admire and support Breivik) are advocating for ever letting Breivik out of prison. I get it that you personally don’t understand the concept of there being any middle ground between bloodthirstily obsessing with vindictive hatred over one’s enemies and suicidally complying with all the wishes of one’s enemies. But that is just one of the many ways in which the real world is more complex and more interesting than the **Starving Artist** cogniverse. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/572 "2018-02-24T21:15:57Z")
Ooh, ooh, in all the bullshit since, I almost forgot the original question. Why is it again that Breivik wasn’t counseled or mentored out of massacring people in such a marvelously liberal country? According to **Snowboarder Bo** that’s all it would have taken, and we here in the U.S. - the lowest of the low, btw - could have gazed upon the horizon and seen and marveled at the superiority of the liberal way. But that didn’t happen, did it? One is only left to ponder the reasons why, foremost of which is: the idea is airheaded bullshit! People who are crackpots might force themselves to sit through counseling and ‘mentoring’ sessions in order to avoid whatever negative consequence may follow if they don’t, but they’ll be sneering and laughing on the inside and mentally rolling their eyes at your efforts to set them on the straight and narrow. Some people are just inherently evil and others become that way through life experience, but either way they’re not going to be counseled and mentored out of it anymore than one can be counseled and mentored out of depression or schizophrenia. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/573 "2018-02-24T21:28:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > According to **Snowboarder Bo** that’s all it would have taken Once again, the problem here is the discrepancy between the **Starving Artist** version of reality and the actual reality. Nowhere did **Snowboarder Bo** claim that counseling or mentoring is “all it would have taken” to prevent the attacks. All he said was that “some counseling or mentoring **might** have been found to help guide him” (emphasis added). Nobody knows whether counseling or mentoring could in fact have prevented Cruz’s attacks, and we’ll never know now. But nobody is asserting that “that’s all it would have taken”. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Some people are just inherently evil and others become that way through life experience, but either way they’re not going to be counseled and mentored out of it anymore than one can be counseled and mentored out of depression or schizophrenia. Nobody here is disagreeing that counseling and mentoring are insufficient to deter deliberate evil, and nobody here ever claimed otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/574 "2018-02-24T21:37:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@Hector the Librarian](#): > > > > […] Didn’t you just get corrected for altering material in quote tags? Here you are at it again. If you’d stop being distracted by thoughts of lining up 100 ten year old boys to talk to them about anal sex, you might seem less like you are sundowning all the time. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/575 "2018-02-24T21:45:54Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Didn’t you just get corrected for altering material in quote tags? Here you are at it again. {…} > [@Can user names be altered for satiric purposes in the Pit?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-user-names-be-altered-for-satiric-purposes-in-the-pit/776687/10): > > {…} Text inside a quote box, including the username, should not be altered. CMC fnord! There is an inverse relationship between the time it takes to construct a post and the degree to which it contributes to a discussion. Hentor the Barbarian’s[Rule of Post Composition](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7063251&postcount=20) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/576 "2018-02-24T21:52:39Z")
It’s now being reported that airlines and other companies are cutting any special ties with the NRA such as offering discounted fares for members flying to attend meetings. They’re also demanding the removal of company information from the NRA’s website. It would be nice if this were the beginnings of a backlash that gains momentum. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/577 "2018-02-24T21:57:58Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Actually, one of the pro-gun proponents has been in the news for the last couple days - because he lied. Was that the guy who was too bone-stoopid to scrub the “Moscow, Russia” tag from one of his messages, or is this a different one? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/578 "2018-02-24T22:10:50Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Didn’t you just get corrected for altering material in quote tags? Here you are at it again. And here once again you demonstrate your characteristic inability to understand the rules, a problem you’ve had in your own profession and corrected upon by me no less, a civilian. Changing user names is allowed in the Pit, as you should well know as I’ve been addressing you with appropriately wimpy names and primarily the Librarian one for going on fifteen years now. You even chided **Spice Weasel** once for inadvertently addressing you that way herself. Remember? Hmm? So nice try but no cigar, you dishonest sack of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/579 "2018-02-24T22:17:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And here once again you demonstrate your characteristic inability to understand the rules, a problem you’ve had in your own profession and corrected upon by me no less, a civilian. Changing user names is allowed in the Pit, as you should well know as I’ve been addressing you with appropriately wimpy names and primarily the Librarian one for going on fifteen years now. You even chided **Spice Weasel** once for inadvertently addressing you that way herself. Remember? Hmm? So nice try but no cigar, you dishonest sack of shit. Look at post #575, pedo. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/580 "2018-02-24T22:22:24Z")
Specifically, the reference to [this ATMB thread:](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=815814) > [@Colibri](#): > > People often alter names in an insulting way in the Pit. And well-known posters are often referred to by nicknames in other forums. […] > > Text inside a quote box, including the username, should not be altered. So, while you can call somebody an insulting nickname in the Pit, you can’t replace their real username by an insulting nickname when quoting their own words. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > And here once again you demonstrate your characteristic inability to understand the rules […] Pot, kettle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=30)