# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/41 "2018-02-15T11:45:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not really. Their “We must do something!” means about as much as “thoughts and prayers”. No way they stick their necks out. By fall 2018 red and purple state Democrats will be posing with their rifles in campaign ads. As they say, “I’m a hunter, but I don’t need an AR-15 to shoot deer or wild turkey.” > [@](#): > > And what’s more, the people saying that something needs to be done will be complicit in Democrats’ desire to keep gun control out of the national conversation for a few months It’s not Dems who are always saying it’s too soon to politicize the latest gun massacre. Look, you’ve got one party that’s largely in favor of gun control, but is all too aware of how heavy a lift it is. And you’ve got another party that’s in favor of making it _easier_ for people to get their hands on high-powered weapons of mass slaughter. So both sides.:mad: ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/42 "2018-02-15T11:45:54Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Pretty sure all the gun owning Patriots need those guns to defend the country when the Russians invade. Have you not seen the documentary “Red Dawn”? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/43 "2018-02-15T13:03:46Z")
School age kids should no longer get an allowance, but rather hazardous duty pay. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/44 "2018-02-15T13:08:39Z")
I hope the good people over at Colt are proud of the overall efficiency of the AR-15. There is no better gun for killing American children. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/45 "2018-02-15T13:09:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Since Americans, unlike other peoples, have the right to own guns, you’re necessarily going to be limited in how far you can go to limit access. That depends. The Second Amendment, rationally interpreted, is a quaint, obsolete, but otherwise harmless provision that should be repealed mainly because it’s useless in the 21st century, as it was in the 20th. The much bigger problem is the _Heller_ ruling, wherein Scalia and his fellow wingnuts declared that the “well-regulated militia” preamble – which is the sole and central reason for the existence of the 2nd amendment – was just decoration and could be ignored, leading to the conclusion that you state. What it will take to change this in some hopeful future is a gun control challenge that makes it to a more rationally constituted Supreme Court, one with fewer idiot wingnuts on the bench. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/46 "2018-02-15T13:11:59Z")
The dead schoolchildren should be hailed as heroes who gave their lives so that we could maintain our Second Amendment freedoms. I’m serious: the Dems in Congress should sponsor legislation giving the wounded and the families of the dead in such incidents the same benefits that soldiers wounded in combat, and the survivors of soldiers killed in combat, receive. And to make sure it ticks off the right, and makes the news, those killed in such shootings should be eligible for burial in our military cemeteries. They’ve given their lives for the ‘freedoms’ that conservatives value more highly than any other, so why the fuck not? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/47 "2018-02-15T13:40:43Z")
**wolfpup @45:**. Good luck with that. The Republican Senate determined two years ago that Democratic Presidents are no longer allowed to appoint Supreme Court Justices. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/48 "2018-02-15T14:01:41Z")
The Republican Senate will not exist in 2021 (or perhaps even 2019). And with the filibuster eliminated for Supreme Court justices, President Duckworth will be able to nominate replacements for (hopefully) Thomas, Roberts, Alito, and Gorsuch. Wishful thinking but it’s possible that they retire or die in Democratic administrations. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/49 "2018-02-15T14:04:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Ukulele Ike** : > > ‘Scuse me while I go out and buy some more guns, because you just KNOW the libtards are gonna make a whole big deal about this again. “Libtards” aren’t making a whole big deal about it. The people with guns are. This school wasn’t a big deal at all two days ago, and now it is, because a guy with a gun made it one. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/50 "2018-02-15T14:07:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The dead schoolchildren should be hailed as heroes who gave their lives so that we could maintain our Second Amendment freedoms. > > I’m serious: the Dems in Congress should sponsor legislation giving the wounded and the families of the dead in such incidents the same benefits that soldiers wounded in combat, and the survivors of soldiers killed in combat, receive. > > And to make sure it ticks off the right, and makes the news, those killed in such shootings should be eligible for burial in our military cemeteries. They’ve given their lives for the ‘freedoms’ that conservatives value more highly than any other, so why the fuck not? This could be a brilliant idea, politically speaking. It’d be awfully hard, politically, to argue against honoring and benefiting survivors and families of school shootings, and arguments against it would be perfect for political attack ads. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/51 "2018-02-15T14:08:17Z")
Republican Decision Tree – Gun Violence / Mass Shooting Response 1.0 Identify Shooter 1.1 If shooter is non-white or an immigrant, go to 2.0. 1.2 If shooter is white, go to 3.0. 2.0 Immediately propose sweeping and aggressive action to show strength and resolve. Examples can include overhauling immigration (numbers, screening, etc.), border walls, stop and frisk, profiling (racial or otherwise), more police, greater access to guns, etc. 3.0 Offer thoughts and prayers. If necessary, point out that it’s too soon to politicize such a tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/52 "2018-02-15T14:19:55Z")
Yup, America’s gun culture is pretty much a manifestation of white American male insecurities. If the shooter is white, well waddaya gonna do? If the shooter is dark skinned and/or a Muslim then we must act now! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/53 "2018-02-15T14:34:02Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Have you not seen the documentary “Red Dawn”? You mean that documentary with the premise that midwestern Americans would object to the Russians taking over the US government? Pure fantasy! ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/54 "2018-02-15T14:37:22Z")
A majority of Americans support stricter gun control and an overwhelming percent support background checks on all gun sales. Clearly having the government opose the majority’s will is tyranny. Fighting tyranny is why we have the 2nd ammendment. So the solution is for the majority to take up arms and force congress to act. How is that for irony? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/55 "2018-02-15T14:44:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You mean that documentary with the premise that midwestern Americans would object to the Russians taking over the US government? Pure fantasy! Ha! It would have been more accurate if when the Russians invade, the militia said “thank God you’re here! There’s a black man in the White House, can you help us? Wolverines!!” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/56 "2018-02-15T14:53:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t even think there’s something wrong with our culture. We’re a nation of 300 million people and a few of us are “special” types who want notoriety. > > Mass shootings making headlines aside, gun crime keeps on dropping. we are making progress, and we’re doing it while liberalizing our gun laws. Mass shootings don’t seem to be dropping. This is deeply concerning, it’s now a cultural norm - if you harbor a grudge against a group of people, you buy an AR-15 and shoot them all. It’s like our suttee, or honor killing, or seppuku. > [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Nope. [Read through this article, and the stats therein.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts) Overwhelming evidence that the more guns, the more gun deaths. Period. Guns aren’t dropped on us from planes, though. Wouldn’t a violent, pathologically individualistic and hierarchical culture like ours be the one that values guns to this extreme? > [@Riemann](#): > > I’m not really sure this is a sound argument. If you think about it, what you’re saying basically amounts to: guns in the hands of the non-psychopaths who populate other countries don’t cause a problem, so there’s no reason to take the guns away from we psychopaths. > > Ok, I know what you’re really saying is – let’s fundamentally improve our society. But it doesn’t follow that it might not be a very good idea to take the guns out of that society too. I mean, to some extent the unwillingness to think it’s a good idea to _try_ that is a manifestation of how screwed up things are. I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, just that it’s not **enough** (setting aside whether it’s possible). Mass shootings are a symptom, and there’s nothing wrong with treating symptoms alongside the actual illness. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/57 "2018-02-15T15:15:12Z")
If you don’t like school shootings every other week, then repeal the 2nd. For some reason, politicians and numerous advocates keep pressing for background checks, restrictions, assault-weapons ban, this and that, all the while unaware (or aware) that it is simply just nibbling around the edges of the real issue. As long as the 2nd Amendment exists, massacres are embedded in the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/58 "2018-02-15T15:16:09Z")
First of all, the belief that Americans would lose their liberty if there weren’t guns all over society is the biggest load of crap since Paul Bunyan’s ox took his last dump. There are dozens of peaceful, democratic countries that have maintained their free democracies for centuries in gun free societies. It’s just NRA scare tactics to frighten people into wanting a gun in every home. The second biggest load of NRA propaganda crap is that “guns make us safer”. No, they do not make us safer. [**In 2017, they killed about 6,880 in the United States.**](http://fortune.com/2017/06/14/steve-scalise-mass-shooting-2017/) [**Japan rarely sees more than 10 per YEAR.**](http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-control-how-japan-has-almost-completely-eliminated-gun-deaths-2017-10) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/59 "2018-02-15T15:41:16Z")
For those of you with obsessive-compulsive firearms disorder, realize this: there is a number. Whether it’s the total number of incidents, or the rate of incidents, or number of victims or the frequency of deaths, there will be a number at which you say “Holy shit, that’s too many! We have to change this.” For the most impaired among you, we will never reach that number. However, for many of you, it will come. The question that you probably won’t have the guts to ask yourself at that point is, “Why wasn’t this number enough?” Why wasn’t Feb 14, 2018 enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/60 "2018-02-15T15:50:04Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > I… what? Seriously? or the [fourth](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/01/us/school-shootings-in-2018/index.html)…it depends on how much you stretch the definition of “school shooting” for PR purposes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=4)