# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/641 "2018-02-26T02:57:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No (I have a few moments free and so popped back in), I don’t believe I’m wrong and I’m not embarrassed. Liberals are notoriously nose-blind when it comes to recognizing liberal bias. For decades they’ve been denying liberal bias in the media even though everyone but they could see it. Further, bias can be so pernicious as to be scarcely noticeable but can have a cumulative and widespread effect, fomenting liberal belief and activism among students themselves and creating liberal-biased peer pressure. > > I note that in your poll 42 posters out of 66 admit having experienced some level of liberal professor bias while the remaining 24 don’t discount it, they either claim professors didn’t try to influence them because they were capable of thinking for themselves (which, while not making much sense, still indicates bias was there if ineffective on their part) or because the student in question was too busy partying (which once again doesn’t discount the presence of bias but just renders it ineffective). > > So pretty much 100% experienced it whether they feel it took hold or not. > > I had occasion some years back to accompany someone to the campus of a major midwestern university as she had to pick up some papers after hours and didn’t want to be walking across campus by herself at night. On every. single. professor’s. office door were cartoons, sayings and papers with a left-wing slant. I was amazed. I mean not one single door was free of that stuff. Now, to those with an inherent left-wing slant to their thinking I’m sure all of this is just how normal, right thinking people think about things. It’s the Dan Rather syndrome described in the book, Bias, by Bernard Goldberg, where Rather is described as having the view that there are two kinds of people in the country: normal, compassionate, right thinking Americans…and right-wing nutjobs. So it’s entirely possible that even though the 100% or your respondents observed bias to one degree or another, they were probably subject to much more than they realized because to them it seemed unremarkable. > > And then we come to the fact that since the '60s, relatively normal kids go off to college more or less politically uninvolved and in short order become raving lefties. That wasn’t much in evidence prior to the '60s, so what since then could be responsible if not college professors and the university environment fostered by them? > > I myself know a young woman here in the midwest who was the kind of high-school student every right-thinking parent would be proud of. Editor of her high-school paper, “A” student, still a virgin upon graduation (though not averse to makeout sessions), etc. Very much a has-her-feet-on-the-ground type of person. Then she went off to college (in a very small rural community no less) and within two years has gone completely round the bend, getting tattoos and piercings, railing about Nazis and Trump and feminism, jumping into arguments that have nothing to do with her on Facebook, and proudly observing that the person she was in high school would have hated the person she is now. > > So again I ask what has changed in the college experience since the '60s to bring all this all too common sort of thing about? > > And of course now that liberalism has inveigled itself even further into education and become outraged over the election of Donald Trump, we’re seeing videos filmed by high-school students of teachers ranting and raving at kids who express conservative views or challenge the views of their teachers. > > So, all in all, I’m afraid your poll hasn’t accomplished anything at all like you hoped it would and I’ve stayed out of it largely because I haven’t had the time to bother with it, but since you’ve apparently decided to hound me about it until I say something, well, this is it. Enjoy. Sorry, but your unsubstantiated recollections with no proof do not get any sort of credibility simply because you remember an alleged anecdote from years ago ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/642 "2018-02-26T02:59:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My account is set to keep me logged in all the time, Moronica. Online is not the same thing as being logged in, dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9adbd/32.png) [@Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Time_Hockey)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/643 "2018-02-26T03:26:33Z")
I’m basically a lurker on this board but holy shit. How the fuck can a selfish old piece of shit like SA be totally tolerated, even seemingly liked by anyone on this board. This asshole has completely hijacked a thread and made it 100% about him and just trolls along collecting insults. I have him on ignore for all the good it does. I understand this venerable old board’s proclivity to retain pet trolls to toy with but enough fucking already. Ban his diseased ass, end his embarrassing presence on this board. I really want to tell sa to go fuck himself with a tube but it’s probably a violation. But I really would want to tell him that if it was allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/644 "2018-02-26T03:35:23Z")
He was grandfathered in ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/645 "2018-02-26T05:11:55Z")
> [@Old\_Time\_Hockey](#): > > I’m basically a lurker on this board but holy shit. How the fuck can a selfish old piece of shit like SA be totally tolerated, even seemingly liked by anyone on this board. This asshole has completely hijacked a thread and made it 100% about him and just trolls along collecting insults. I have him on ignore for all the good it does. I understand this venerable old board’s proclivity to retain pet trolls to toy with but enough fucking already. Ban his diseased ass, end his embarrassing presence on this board. I really want to tell sa to go fuck himself with a tube but it’s probably a violation. But I really would want to tell him that if it was allowed. We ask ourselves the same thing, dude. (And you can get away with saying, “go fuck a tube”. Just leave out the “yourself with” and you’re golden) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/646 "2018-02-26T05:18:16Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The lyric I always hear when reading Sharting’s posts is from Billy Joel’s _Moving Out_: > > “You should never argue with a crazy man.” It’s, “You should never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind.” It’s still appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/647 "2018-02-26T05:42:38Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > It’s, “You should never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind.” It’s still appropriate. Objection: Assumes existence of organs not in evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9adbd/32.png) [@Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Time_Hockey)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/648 "2018-02-26T05:47:13Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > We ask ourselves the same thing, dude. > > (And you can get away with saying, “go fuck a tube”. Just leave out the “yourself with” and you’re golden) Thanks for the tip, but the golden part is strangely unsettling. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/649 "2018-02-26T05:59:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I note that in your poll 42 posters out of 66 admit having experienced some level of liberal professor bias while the remaining 24 don’t discount it, they either claim professors didn’t try to influence them because they were capable of thinking for themselves (which, while not making much sense, still indicates bias was there if ineffective on their part) or because the student in question was too busy partying (which once again doesn’t discount the presence of bias but just renders it ineffective). > > So pretty much 100% experienced it whether they feel it took hold or not. I would think a fun-loving almost-septagenarian like you would recognize the choices were made in a facetious spirit. I even said so in the thread, but evidently you didn’t read it. For example, the first one was “Thanks to them, I’m an avowed Marxist and live in a commune.” I would think anybody would be able to tell I was being silly, but you didn’t comment on it. Apparently you thought it was a normal question to ask. It appears that like most conservatives, you were taken in by [Poe’s Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law), which states “without a clear indicator of the author’s intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers or viewers as a sincere expression of the parodied views.” But that’s neither here nor there. You didn’t read the thread comments. Nobody felt their political outlooks were changed regardless of whether the educator was liberal or conservative. In the end, they were able to think for themselves and avoided any brainwashing. That’s the point I was trying to make, but you used your liberal conspiracy filter to completely warp it. How did I not see that. > [@](#): > > So, all in all, I’m afraid your poll hasn’t accomplished anything at all like you hoped it would and I’ve stayed out of it largely because I haven’t had the time to bother with it, but since you’ve apparently decided to hound me about it until I say something, well, this is it. Enjoy. I at least got you to read something out of your comfort zone, which you ought to spend more time doing so you can understand how research works. btw, you don’t need to notify us that you’re signing off. We don’t care, and you usually stay anyway. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/650 "2018-02-26T06:11:11Z")
I think that a lot of the dreaded liberalization seems to come from expanding one’s circles, and even greater, one’s mind. The girl in his anecdote wasn’t indoctrinated by evil liberal educators; she got out a bit more, thought a bit more, and was exposed to ideas that were new and intriguing. As I said, I know kids who didn’t go to college yet still became more liberal in their late teens/early twenties. There’s a quote attributed to Churchill, falsely I believe, that says if you aren’t liberal when you’re young, you have no heart and if you aren’t conservative when you’re old, you have no brain. I know a lot of exceptionally smart older people who are as liberal as they come. But young kids, going into the world in whatever way they can, tend to be firebrands when it comes to injustice. Not always, of course. I know young Republicans, too. But I know more liberals who thought they were conservative while still in the nest than vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/651 "2018-02-26T07:34:05Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I think that a lot of the dreaded liberalization seems to come from expanding one’s circles, and even greater, one’s mind. The girl in his anecdote wasn’t indoctrinated by evil liberal educators; she got out a bit more, thought a bit more, and was exposed to ideas that were new and intriguing. Yeah, that happened to me, and I credit the Internet more than getting out in the world. Plus the massive implosion principled conservative thought underwent in the Dubya/FOX News era. > [@](#): > > But young kids, going into the world in whatever way they can, tend to be firebrands when it comes to injustice. I’ll add some nuance to this, and I know I’m probably not disagreeing with you _per se_: Young Republicans _can_ be firebrands when it comes to injustice, primarily because they fall for “decoy ideologies” the GOP sells but does not follow, such as Evangelical Christianity and Libertarianism. When you’re a Libertarian, you’re a Socialist, only Smarter. _You_ have the One True Scientific Plan To Solve Everything, and it isn’t Marxism, where you can point to the numerous times _that’s_ failed in practice. (Note: Don’t fucking go there with me.) You can claim that _your_ ideology has never been tried, and that it’s based on both logic and respect for others. It’s invigorating, to think it’s possible to fix everything just by tearing down a few rotten edifices like, you know, OSHA, the EPA, and everything else we learned about good government beginning in the Progressive Era and continuing on through the Liberal Consensus period. Libertarians are Republicans in that the Republican Party has a so-called Libertarian wing, and if you’re at all politically active, you know the Libertarian Party is a joke which can barely swing local elections. Libertarians can fool themselves into thinking they can enter the GOP, execute a French Turn (only this time an Austrian Turn, I suppose), and use the Republicans to implement Libertarian policy. Hell, the modern GOP might actually be idiotic enough to fall for that these days, were it still complement to implement _any_ coherent policy. Back when I was a Young Libertarian, though, the GOP was solidly Neoconservative, which is the Trotskyist “Permanent Revolution” of conservative thought. Evangelicals are firebrands _for Jesus_, and I won’t pretend to know much about that life. I lived in their world, but I was never of their world. Finally… in my quieter moments, I fancy myself something of a big-C Conservative in a psychological sense. I don’t want massive, radical change, because I feel that provokes hysteria and hysteresis, or counter-revolution and Reaction and Lobsters Thermidor. I _do_ want progress, but I don’t pretend to have a Grand Plan and I am openly disdainful of teleological ideologies which have a Grand Plan and honestly think that “it’s never been tried” is a _good_ thing. Moreover, I hold to a rights-based framework for social justice and am extremely distrustful of policies which reduce rights or give preference to any specific group, which I think makes me a Literal Fascist among some crowds. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/652 "2018-02-26T13:26:38Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > But that’s soooo 2001. I thought an Internet Troll these days was anybody who did not agree… with someone or something. Or possibly a fake Russian Facebook account? I think there are some other newer types around now a well. > > Oh hell, maybe we’re ALL trolls. :rolleyes: The royal “we,” or are you speaking on behalf of your fellow socks? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/653 "2018-02-26T14:20:07Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > counter-revolution and Reaction and Lobsters Thermidor. Mmmm…lobsters [Thermidor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermidorian_Reaction)! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/654 "2018-02-26T14:29:37Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > He was grandfathered in Well played. 🙂 **Old Time Hockey** - I don’t see much evidence that people like SA, but we’ll argue honestly with just about anyone. It’s one of the strengths of this board, and I think it results in a higher quality of debate than just about anywhere else I’ve been on the Web. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/655 "2018-02-26T15:11:20Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The royal “we,” or are you speaking on behalf of your fellow socks? Yeah, I don’t know about the royalty characterization. Including the long-running drive-by trolls such as yourself seems unfair. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/656 "2018-02-26T15:38:28Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I think that a lot of the dreaded liberalization seems to come from expanding one’s circles, and even greater, one’s mind. Also, a lot of behavioral changes in young adulthood derive not from any ideological changes but just from, you know, growing up. For instance, if a teenager remains a virgin throughout high school but ceases to be a virgin in college, that doesn’t necessarily imply any kind of radicalization of their views on the morality of premarital sex. It could just mean that they personally didn’t feel ready to have sex as a high-schooler, but a couple years later they did. No “liberal indoctrination” required. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/657 "2018-02-26T15:51:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Also, a lot of behavioral changes in young adulthood derive not from any ideological changes but just from, you know, growing up. > > For instance, if a teenager remains a virgin throughout high school but ceases to be a virgin in college, that doesn’t necessarily imply any kind of radicalization of their views on the morality of premarital sex. It could just mean that they personally didn’t feel ready to have sex as a high-schooler, but a couple years later they did. No “liberal indoctrination” required. In truth, the real mechanism of such a change cannot be identified until the details of the sexual behavior are collected by a septuagenarian neighbor acquaintance. And it will in fact be liberal indoctrination. There’s no point denying it. (One shudders at how Sharting knew she “wasn’t averse to make out sessions”.) ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9adbd/32.png) [@Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Time_Hockey)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/658 "2018-02-26T17:07:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Well played. 🙂 > > **Old Time Hockey** - I don’t see much evidence that people like SA, but we’ll argue honestly with just about anyone. It’s one of the strengths of this board, and I think it results in a higher quality of debate than just about anywhere else I’ve been on the Web. I love this board’s lively debates. I just think you need two honest debaters. I have never seen any growth or honesty in sa over the years, just unrelenting worship of all things Orange. A thread discussing school shootings has been hijacked to talk about an old shitstain who perves on his young neighbour. I’m sure most here despise sa and all his bullshit, but I just seem to detect an underlying affection among posters who engage with him, almost like they are protective of their pet troll. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/659 "2018-02-26T17:32:09Z")
[Now Trump claims](https://www.apnews.com/27431e0cf11d4f53b6152754818d824c/The-Latest:-Eric-Trump-favors-'common-sense'-gun-measures?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Politics) that if he had been there in Florida, he would’ve run in to help even without a weapon > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump is telling the nation’s governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting “even if I didn’t have a weapon.” > > The president is again finding fault with officers who didn’t stop the Florida gunman who carried out the massacre earlier this month. Trump says the deputies “weren’t exactly Medal of Honor winners.” > > He tells 39 of the nation’s governors, “I really believe I’d run in there even if I didn’t have a weapon.” There aren’t enough :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: in the world… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/660 "2018-02-26T17:47:27Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > [Now Trump claims](https://www.apnews.com/27431e0cf11d4f53b6152754818d824c/The-Latest:-Eric-Trump-favors-'common-sense'-gun-measures?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Politics) that if he had been there in Florida, he would’ve run in to help even without a weapon > > There aren’t enough :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: in the world… Yeah, well, with a phalanx of armed Secret Service agents leading the way, who wouldn’t? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=34)