# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/721 "2018-02-28T10:18:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What I did say was that your experience, as you described it, was materially different than the scenario under discussion. I stand by that, but will not explain why here. **MrDibble** read the testimony of McQueary and _specifically said_ that it matches what happened to him. How the hell could you possibly know that it “was materially different”? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/722 "2018-02-28T10:58:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Fuck your “respect”. It might seem less two-faced if you used my proper name, you senile jazz-waste. I might have been more willing to use your proper name if you hadn’t been such an eager shithead in regard to me every chance you’ve had the last six years. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Didn’t discuss it until badgered", you mean. Wouldn’t you say the fact that you had to badger me into addressing it with you would be a pretty good indicator I didn’t want to confront you about it even though I thought your circumstance was materially different? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Couching that as “respect” now is just self-serving bullshit. I was being respectful of your feelings as a past rape victim. I still am. Of you as a person, I’m far less respectful at this point. > [@MrDibble](#): > > you’ve forgotten what you actually said, which, I mean, I get, we all know you’re getting on… Yeah, and I know you all _think_ I’m bothered by mention of it. You’re wrong about that too. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Like fuck, you didn’t: That’s right, I didn’t. > [@MrDibble](#): > > you telling me, to my face, that what I was saying happened, didn’t happen the way I said it did. That’s calling me a liar. Recognizing the possibility your perception might have been off is not calling you a liar. Not even close. My home was broken into once by a guy who came into my bedroom several times as he roamed around the house. I told the cops he was about 6’1" and 195 pounds. Turned out he was about 5’9" and 155 pounds. My guess is that you came charging into that thread in high dudgeon intending to smite me with the incontestable facts of your experience and prove me wrong for everyone in the thread to see. Then you got pissed when first of all I tried to avoid you, then you got pissed even further when I suggested that as a young boy experiencing a horrible crime your perception might have been off, something that under any other circumstance anyone would think quite reasonable, and then you’ve been pissed off ever since because I never came around. And while you’re certainly free to do all that, it isn’t incumbent on me to divine it or to act upon it in a way to somehow satisfy you. As I said, you’ve been an absolute jerk to me going on six years now when what I did was try to respect your feelings, avoid confronting you and then when badgered into it tried to express my doubts in as tactful a manner as I could. So shove it. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t want an apology from you… But you’ve been waiting for one all this time anyway? > [@MrDibble](#): > > just want to point out, _to everyone else_, that the Prince of Past Politesse is the kind of hypocrite who would unapologetically call a rape victim a liar to defend a paedophile rapist. Cool, a twofer. Didn’t call you a liar, never defended a pedophile rapist. Look, I’m truly very sorry for what happened to you. Nothing like that should ever happen to anyone. But as it pertains to me it’s way past time for you to let it go. Your current M.O. can’t be healthy. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/723 "2018-02-28T11:50:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Cool, a twofer. You sick fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/724 "2018-02-28T12:05:23Z")
No, like I said upthread, I’m beginning to think it’s you wierdos who can’t let it go who are the real sickos on this issue. It isn’t healthy to be obsessing over this stuff like you people do. You really need to let it go. You’ll be happier people and so will all the other posters who won’t have to read your disgusting nonsense every time I wind up in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/725 "2018-02-28T12:12:13Z")
It’s stunning that someone could be so unable to admit that they might possibly have made a mistake that they’d rather insist they know better than a survivor of child rape about whether and how a child could be raped than admit that the survivor probably has a more accurate understanding of child rape than they do. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/726 "2018-02-28T13:03:08Z")
Wait. The dotard is now claiming he didn’t say what he said in the Paterno thread? I guess I can understand wanting to pretend like it didn’t happen, but it’s right there for everyone to see. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/727 "2018-02-28T13:10:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And if you guys think you’re bugging me with all this old guy talk, just remember I’m a conservative, and therefore a realist. In other words, things are what they are. My age is what it is and I spend zero hours lamenting that fact. Thanks also to my conservatism I’m an optimist and am aware that many people don’t get to live as long as I have, and that many who have, haven’t been able to enjoy the same health and activity level that I have. You people are pissed because I criticize your thinking and what you’ve done, so like children in a schoolyard you seize upon things about me you think you can make fun of to try to mock or bully me into going away. And yet here we are fifteen years later and it still isn’t working. And you have yet to learn that it doesn’t work. > > _shrug_ You’re a conservative, and therefore, you’re a “realist” based on your own very limited set of life experiences, which you assume to be universal but really aren’t in any way. And rather than trying to understand that fact, you just double down on the assumption that your experiences are what really matter, and fuck everyone else’s. Great way to start a dialogue.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/728 "2018-02-28T13:23:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, like I said upthread, I’m beginning to think it’s you wierdos who can’t let it go who are the real sickos on this issue. It isn’t healthy to be obsessing over this stuff like you people do. You really need to let it go. You’ll be happier people and so will all the other posters who won’t have to read your disgusting nonsense every time I wind up in the Pit. Don’t worry, SA. Our friends at the American Civil Liberals Union will make sure sodomy is legal once we win the mid-term elections. Then your boy Jerry can get out and go back to “hugging” young athletic boys in the showers again. And don’t call us “weirdos” and “sickos.” That’s hate speech. Quick: How is Campbell’s Soup like Joe Paterno’s coaching squad? They come in little cans! (Muahahahaha) ALL HAIL SOROS! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/729 "2018-02-28T13:36:18Z")
Soros! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/730 "2018-02-28T13:43:52Z")
For most of us there came a time on the internet where we learned to filter ourselves as we found that the anonymity promised us in the 1990s was anything but, and that the things we say on the net can affect our lives, careers, relationships, etc. I had my moment, many reading these words had theirs. Now I just assume anything I say can be made public and that everybody can watch me at any time. Let’s just say that I hope SA does a better job of covering his tracks than I did, for if I found out my dad/granddad/uncle were making these arguments on a public internet forum, I would be immediately, and gravely, concerned. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/731 "2018-02-28T15:35:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I might have been more willing to use your proper name if you hadn’t been such an eager shithead in regard to me every chance you’ve had the last six years. You could just say “I’m a raging hypocrite”, it’s shorter. > [@](#): > > Wouldn’t you say the fact that you had to badger me into addressing it with you would be a pretty good indicator I didn’t want to confront you about it No, I’d say it’s an indicator you’re a coward. > [@](#): > > I was being respectful of your feelings as a past rape victim. I still am. Calling me a liar is not respectful of my feelings, idiot. > [@](#): > > Yeah, and I know you all _think_ I’m bothered by mention of it. You’re wrong about that too. Sure, grandpa, whatever you say… > [@](#): > > That’s right, I didn’t. […] > Recognizing the possibility your perception might have been off is not calling you a liar. No, you saying “That did not happen the way you said it did” is you calling me a liar. > [@](#): > > My guess is …so much bullshit. I proved you wrong and your only way to keep your sick paedo defence alive is to call me a liar. The rest is you projecting your own shitty observational skills onto me. > [@](#): > > As I said, you’ve been an absolute jerk to me going on six years now I’m sure it’s been longer than that - probably from when you were first complaining how today’s Negros are more uppity than back in the 50s (my paraphrase, of course) > [@](#): > > when what I did was try to respect your feelings …by calling me delusional. > [@](#): > > , avoid confronting you and then when badgered into it tried to express my doubts in as tactful a manner as I could You suck harder at tact than you do at defending paedosphiles. > [@](#): > > . So shove it. …into a toiletroll tube, old timer? That’s more your speed than mine. > [@](#): > > But you’ve been waiting for one all this time anyway? Did I ever say that? Quite the opposite, in fact. > [@](#): > > Didn’t call you a liar, never defended a pedophile rapist. Anyone who can read, can plainly see you’ve done both. > [@](#): > > Look, I’m truly very sorry for what happened to you. I give zero fucks what you’re sorry for, you sad creep. > [@](#): > > But as it pertains to me it’s way past time for you to let it go. I’ll let it go around the time you fuck off from here for good, not before. > [@](#): > > Your current M.O. can’t be healthy. No, it’s quite cathartic. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/732 "2018-02-28T15:49:14Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > For most of us there came a time on the internet where we learned to filter ourselves as we found that the anonymity promised us in the 1990s was anything but, and that the things we say on the net can affect our lives, careers, relationships, etc. I had my moment, many reading these words had theirs. Now I just assume anything I say can be made public and that everybody can watch me at any time. > > Let’s just say that I hope SA does a better job of covering his tracks than I did, for if I found out my dad/granddad/uncle were making these arguments on a public internet forum, I would be immediately, and gravely, concerned. I believe he’s said in the past that he keeps his family in the dark about his postings here, which suggests that he is at least dimly aware that they may not wholly embrace his peculiar views. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/733 "2018-02-28T16:24:04Z")
Poor, poor Starving Artist. Truly no violin is small enough to properly provide the right musical ambiance to dramatize his annoying whine. He proclaims himself a conservative, but do we call him Starving Artist the Realist? No, no we do not. He again proclaims that he’s really a conservative, but do we call him Starving Artist the Optimist? Again no, we do not, and we’d like a cite on that part. But he fucks one cardboard tube to defend a kiddy diddler … ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/734 "2018-02-28T16:28:11Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I believe he’s said in the past that he keeps his family in the dark about his postings here, which suggests that he is at least dimly aware that they may not wholly embrace his peculiar views. Or maybe there’s a restraining order in place. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/735 "2018-02-28T22:53:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m sure it’s been longer than that - probably from when you were first complaining how today’s Negros are more uppity than back in the 50s… Okay, now I get to call you a liar. You. are. a. liar! A lying liar who lies! And congratulations! Now I have cause to suspect the validity of your rape claim as well. For all I know you made it up out of whole cloth because you thought would be a sure-fire way to undercut my argument, and you’ve been seething ever since because it didn’t work. You yourself admitted that your animus toward me predates the Paterno thread so you certainly had motive. See, here’s the thing when one is shown to be a liar - everything they say or have said becomes suspect. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/736 "2018-02-28T23:09:35Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > For most of us there came a time on the internet where we learned to filter ourselves as we found that the anonymity promised us in the 1990s was anything but, and that the things we say on the net can affect our lives, careers, relationships, etc. I had my moment, many reading these words had theirs. Now I just assume anything I say can be made public and that everybody can watch me at any time. > > Let’s just say that I hope SA does a better job of covering his tracks than I did, for if I found out my dad/granddad/uncle were making these arguments on a public internet forum, I would be immediately, and gravely, concerned. My family and friends are aware of my general political leanings, which, btw, are more liberal than anyone here would be able to recognize, but exist nonetheless. I’m not on board with everything liberals want but my primary objection is with the way they go about trying to achieve them, which usually entails fucking up a dozen other things so as to make one thing marginally better, and the fact that an endless slippery slope is usually involved. But be that as it may, this is the only place where I act like this. What goes around comes around, and my behavior here is nothing but a response to the dishonesty and insults and hatred that I was greeted with from my very first day here. Still, by and large I took the place seriously for a while and tried taking the high road for the most part, and naturally it got me nowhere. So I decided to fight fire with fire and here we are. Pretty much the same thing is going on nationally too. You guys started with the insults and hatred in the late sixties and now it’s boomeranging on you and the country has become divided into two warring camps that hate each other, and the right has become so fed up with you that they put on their own Starving Artist costume and put Donald Trump in the White House. The rest of the world knows me as a nice and likable guy. You people know me as you do because of the way you are. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/737 "2018-02-28T23:16:28Z")
Dude. “Showering lessons”? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/738 "2018-02-28T23:21:51Z")
We started it in the 60s, huh. So the fact that my parents couldn’t move into our neighborhood until the late 70s because “no Jews allowed” was conservative USA being nice. Silly us, demanding we be treated as people. Not asking nicely but demanding. To the privileged, equality feels like discrimination. Poor, poor dear. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/739 "2018-02-28T23:38:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Okay, now I get to call you a liar. You. are. a. liar! A lying liar who lies! > > And congratulations! Now I have cause to suspect the validity of your rape claim as well. For all I know you made it up out of whole cloth because you thought would be a sure-fire way to undercut my argument, and you’ve been seething ever since because it didn’t work. You yourself admitted that your animus toward me predates the Paterno thread so you certainly had motive. > > See, here’s the thing when one is shown to be a liar - everything they say or have said becomes suspect. > > Good job. What really gets me is the unkindness and indecency. You claim to be a kind and decent person, but posts like this belie that. Kind and decent people don’t challenge survivors of child rape on their claims, they don’t say they might be wrong about their own experiences, they don’t call them liars, etc. What a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/740 "2018-02-28T23:44:13Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > We started it in the 60s, huh. So the fact that my parents couldn’t move into our neighborhood until the late 70s because “no Jews allowed” was conservative USA being nice. Silly us, demanding we be treated as people. Not asking nicely but demanding. > > To the privileged, equality feels like discrimination. Poor, poor dear. Bad things exist in every country and in every time. The key is to correct them in ways that are mature, intelligent and reasoned rather than by twisting off like a pop bottle rocket in all directions at once and making ten things worse for every one that gets even slightly better. Women’s suffrage, the end of prohibition and important civil rights legislation were all enacted prior to the counterculture era and without turning the country into the vile, vulgar, drug and crime infested, poorly-educated cesspool it is today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=38)