# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/781 "2018-03-01T16:17:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > This thread isn’t supposed to be about SA’s rape defense, nor his desire to return the world to institutionalized racism, not even his creepy infatuation with his underage neighbor’s sex lives or anything disgusting or unsocial like that. > > It is supposed to be about dead school children. Part of the problem is that the board’s resident gun fetishists are suddenly very, very silent. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/782 "2018-03-01T17:03:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > This thread isn’t supposed to be about SA’s rape defense, nor his desire to return the world to institutionalized racism, not even his creepy infatuation with his underage neighbor’s sex lives or anything disgusting or unsocial like that. > > It is supposed to be about dead school children. At least this thread’s keeping him away from all the other threads on that topic. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/783 "2018-03-01T17:08:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I know that if I were a black parent I’d much rather raise my kids in the '50s or '60s A remark like that could only be made by a clueless white person who grew up in a persistently racist society where he didn’t have to notice or care what kinds of mistreatment black Americans had to endure back then. From [workplace segregation](https://books.google.com/books?id=WdzdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA14) > [@](#): > > The leader of Georgia’s dominant political faction assured Georgia’s white working-class voters that “I don’t want your wives or your daughters to work under a Negro foreman or beside a Negro”. to [terrorist enforcement of housing discrimination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero_race_riot_of_1951) > [@](#): > > In early June 1951, Mrs. DeRose, who owned an apartment building at 6139–42 W. 19th Street in Cicero […] rented an apartment to Harvey E. Clark Jr., an African-American World War II veteran and graduate of Fisk University, and his family in an all-white neighborhood. A high-ranking Cicero official learned that an African-American family was moving into a Cicero apartment and warned Mrs. DeRose that there would be “trouble” if he moved in. […] > > On July 11, 1951, at dusk, a crowd of 4,000 whites attacked the apartment building that housed Clark’s family and possessions. Only 60 police officers were assigned to the scene and did little to control the rioting. Women carried stones from a nearby rock pile to bombard Clark’s windows. Another tossed firebrands onto the window and onto the rooftop of the building which 21 family members fled before the rioting. The mob also destroyed a bathtub, woodworks, plaster, doors, windows, and set fires to the place. to [anti-miscegenation laws preventing interracial marriage](https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Naim_v_Naim_June_13_1955) > [@](#): > > [From anti-intermarriage arguments in the Virginia case _Naim v. Naim_, 1955:] > > > [@](#): > > > > We are unable to read in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, or in any other provision of that great document, any words or any intendment which prohibit the State from enacting legislation to preserve the racial integrity of its citizens, or which denies the power of the State to regulate the marriage relation so that it shall not have a mongrel breed of citizens. We find there no requirement that the State shall not legislate to prevent the obliteration of racial pride, but must permit the corruption of blood even though it weaken or destroy the quality of its citizenship. to [violent resistance to school desegregation](http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/central-high-school-integrated) > [@](#): > > On September 2 [1957], Governor Orval Faubus—a staunch segregationist—called out the Arkansas National Guard to surround Central High School and prevent integration, ostensibly to prevent the bloodshed he claimed desegregation would cause. The next day, Judge Davies ordered integrated classes to begin on September 4. > > That morning, 100 armed National Guard troops encircled Central High School. A mob of 400 white civilians gathered and turned ugly when the black students began to arrive, shouting racial epithets and threatening the teenagers with violence. The National Guard troops refused to let the black students pass and used their clubs to control the crowd. One of the nine, 15-year-old Elizabeth Eckford, was surrounded by the mob, which threatened to lynch her. to innumerable other aspects of racism entrenched throughout American life, the 1950s were very far from a “polite” or “civilized” society in the experience of most black Americans. The fact that you can claim with a straight face that if you were a black parent you’d prefer to live in that era instead of the present day only shows how thoroughly your own attitudes and beliefs are saturated in persistently racist culture and white privilege. Even if your conscious opinion is in favor of racial equality (and I for one have never disbelieved you when you say it is), your obstinate ignorance, resentment and blame-shifting on racial issues constantly reflect the pervasive racism you assimilated from the attitudes of the society you grew up in. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/784 "2018-03-01T17:36:36Z")
_sigh_ Note to any moderators who wander by: As the person who started this thread and as someone who saw it go off the rails thanks to posting behavior that probably violates rules (off-topic trolling? don’t be a jerk?) I humbly request that since this thread evidently is not going to be fumigated, that it be closed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/785 "2018-03-01T17:43:51Z")
I reported it yesterday. I don’t think they care. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/786 "2018-03-01T18:21:47Z")
As a contributor to that derailment, I’m happy to stop posting here, **Left Ear.** ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/787 "2018-03-01T18:24:25Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > _sigh_ > > Note to any moderators who wander by: > > As the person who started this thread and as someone who saw it go off the rails thanks to posting behavior that probably violates rules (off-topic trolling? don’t be a jerk?) I humbly request that since this thread evidently is not going to be fumigated, that it be closed. I am somewhat sympathetic. I have frequently on these boards asserted that these victims are paying the butcher’s bill for damuri and bone and other fetishists here to cosplay tough warrior guys. It’s fruitless though, because they’re not troubled by that trade. They don’t care. But I would be curious to know what more you would want to say on the subject. You started with thoughts and prayers for everyone. What should we be saying that we aren’t? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/788 "2018-03-01T18:32:43Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > _sigh_ > > Note to any moderators who wander by: > > As the person who started this thread and as someone who saw it go off the rails thanks to posting behavior that probably violates rules (off-topic trolling? don’t be a jerk?) I humbly request that since this thread evidently is not going to be fumigated, that it be closed. The only solution is to ban anyone who is not posting in good faith. That is unpalatable to the moderation staff, apparently because it would destroy the board’s Republican contingent. I’m not sure if that means the moderators are righties who can’t bear to see this board drift further left, or lefties who want **Starving Artist** to be the face of the Republican Party on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/789 "2018-03-01T20:14:10Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > The only solution is to ban anyone who is not posting in good faith. > > That is unpalatable to the moderation staff, apparently because it would destroy the board’s Republican contingent. > > I’m not sure if that means the moderators are righties who can’t bear to see this board drift further left, or lefties who want **Starving Artist** to be the face of the Republican Party on the SDMB. Or maybe they’re just entertained by the constant argy-bargy and figure as long as it stays in the Pit, no harm no foul. Me, I’ve got to read **SA** ’s posts sparingly. The repulsiveness of his views aside, his habits of a) never using one word when twenty will do, coupled with b) repeating exactly the same tired arguments dozens of times in the same thread, give one the temptation to put one’s head in the oven and turn on the gas. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/790 "2018-03-01T20:42:10Z")
[Thoughts and Prayers: The Game](https://twitter.com/nicholas_biondi/status/969308610210811904) “America faces an epidemic of mass shootings. It’s up to you to stop them…with the power of your thoughts and prayers.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/791 "2018-03-01T21:34:05Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I am somewhat sympathetic. I have frequently on these boards asserted that these victims are paying the butcher’s bill for damuri and bone and other fetishists here to cosplay tough warrior guys. It’s fruitless though, because they’re not troubled by that trade. They don’t care. > > But I would be curious to know what more you would want to say on the subject. You started with thoughts and prayers for everyone. What should we be saying that we aren’t? Like every other thread who’s topic doesn’t get posted to anymore: Fall off the main page and not be posted to again. Or it’ll stay there while people post on topic. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/792 "2018-03-01T21:57:45Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > The only solution is to ban anyone who is not posting in good faith. How would one assess that in an unbiased way, though? I think you may be charitably overestimating the ability of some posters to think critically about ideological arguments, and consequently assuming that the uncritical arguments they make are deliberately dishonest. I’m not sure I agree with that. Horrific as it may be to contemplate, I really believe that when it comes to attempts at logical reasoning and drawing valid conclusions from reliable evidence and so forth, what we’re seeing from **Starving Artist** , for example, is genuinely his best game. And I don’t think anybody’s ever been banned from these boards for giving aid and comfort to the forces of ignorance just through sheer lack of ability rather than deliberate malice. (Not saying that **Starving Artist** doesn’t have deliberate malice against some of us, but that’s irrelevant as long as he keeps it in the Pit. What I mean is that I don’t think his malevolence extends to the entire process of reasoned discussion. If he were capable of making better arguments, he’d be willing to do so, IMHO.) ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/793 "2018-03-01T22:19:16Z")
Kimstu wrote: “How would one assess that in an unbiased way, though?” Let everybody designate themselves liberal, conservative, or moderate. And if a certain percentage (to be set by the mods) of “your own folks” call for your banning, then banned you shall be. Self-policing is the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/794 "2018-03-01T22:27:31Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > _sigh_ > > Note to any moderators who wander by: > > As the person who started this thread and as someone who saw it go off the rails thanks to posting behavior that probably violates rules (off-topic trolling? don’t be a jerk?) I humbly request that since this thread evidently is not going to be fumigated, that it be closed. How about renamed? Just spitballing, but I have: The tree of liberty needs to be cut down and processed into pulp from which paper towel tubes can be manufactured. Seriously, sorry about your thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/795 "2018-03-01T23:03:29Z")
Me too. I see that it is now become a place where a rape victim is being victim shamed. I find that unacceptable in a thread with my name on it unless it is germane to the topic in some way. It’s not. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/796 "2018-03-01T23:15:54Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Me too. I see that it is now become a place where a rape victim is being victim shamed. I find that unacceptable in a thread with my name on it unless it is germane to the topic in some way. It’s not. > > Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk I certainly cannot speak for Mr. Dibble, but I would hope that he isn’t feeling shamed. Nobody should ever feel shamed by anything that Sharting Fartist says or does, except himself and his family. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/797 "2018-03-02T00:00:44Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Me too. I see that it is now become a place where a rape victim is being victim shamed. Disagree; there’s only one person being shamed in this thread, and it’s the would-be victim-shamer despicably shaming himself. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/798 "2018-03-02T00:49:31Z")
You know what I fucking mean. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/799 "2018-03-02T00:54:27Z")
Please. I didn’t shame for being raped, I shamed him for being a liar. What nonsense. You people just abandon all pretext to honesty, integrity, truth and facts when you’re pissed at someone, don’t you. It’s both amusing and alarming to see this aspect of human nature in action. So glad to be conservative and not prone to such hysterical dipshittery. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/800 "2018-03-02T01:13:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Please. I didn’t shame for being raped, I shamed him for being a liar. Well, no. What you did was to latch on to a disparaging opinion expressed by **MrDibble** about the tone of some of your earlier remarks, and try to spin that into a claim that he had literally lied about something you said. And then you used that as an excuse to try to cast doubt on his earlier accounts of his own experiences as an abuse victim. If expressing a disparaging opinion about how another poster’s remarks come across counts as “lying” just because the other poster disagrees with it, then you yourself are lying in practically every post you make. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=41)