# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/821 "2018-03-02T06:17:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It does if you employ it to lie about someone. Soooo…yes. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/822 "2018-03-02T06:20:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And yet the fact that my attackers are the ones who post the first off-topic comments and are the true detailers get a complete free pass and it’s my responses that are deemed to be hijacking the thread and/or turning it into the **SA** show. The evidence doesn’t bear you out on that. This very thread, for instance, started out with several pages of people griping and quarreling in mostly comfortable give-and-take from a variety of ideological positions. That included you in posts #203 and #229, contributing for once in a reasonably non-attention-seeking and relevant way: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > How in the world does anyone expect to repeal the 2nd Amendment when the very reason gun control efforts fail to begin with is that so much of the populace is opposed to it? […] > > However much it is doesn’t matter, as long as it’s enough. And there’s been enough to stymie halfway measures for gun control so I’m sure that there’s more than enough to keep a repeal from being passed that could lead to them being banned altogether. Both of which were followed by continuation of the relevant discussion, with no “derailers” or “attackers” going “off-topic” to pick on you in any way. Another couple dozen posts followed in the same vein, and the thread was progressing fine until you apparently decided you weren’t getting enough attention. So in [post #255](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20794735&postcount=255) you linked (with a snarky aside at me that I ignored) to a news story on a knife massacre in China three years ago. This also was rebutted in a continuation of the on-topic discussion, without any personal insults to you. You then [taunted “you people” about “purposely avoiding the point”](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20794766&postcount=259), and when that **still** didn’t get you any attention other than **bobot** shrugging you off as “dumb as shit”, started banging your worn-out old anti-liberal drum again in post #264: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > As I said, guns were everywhere in 1960 but this stuff wasn’t going on then. As people have been pointing out lately, it was common in 1960 high schools to see guns in gun racks in pickup trucks and no one freaked out about it because there was no need because for the most part people were brought up properly and they behaved. > > Again, guns aren’t the problem, people in the society that exists today are. And now, having created the dangers all this fuckupery has generated, liberals seek to take away people’s ability to defend themselves from them. So typical. **iiandyiiii** responded with a patient and on-topic answer to your all-purpose anti-liberal schtick, ending in post #268 with: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m pretty sure we’ve had this same discussion before, **Starving Artist**. That’s one of the ways I find it so frustrating discussing things with you – some of these things aren’t based on liberal/conservative or other opinion differences, it’s just very simple common sense. Guns make it easier to kill people. That’s part of the issue – not the whole issue, but it really is a part of it. You might, like a lot of conservatives, believe that gun control is ineffective, and/or that the right to own guns is more important than trying to reduce the ability of criminals to shoot people, but the availability of guns is, factually, a part of the issue of why mass gun violence is so common and so deadly in America. **Knowed Out** added: > [@Knowed Out](#): > > Jesus Fucking Christ, do you realize how flawed your logic gets in your zeal to blame everything on liberal boogeymen? You’re saying that liberals didn’t properly condition society to accept guns as as necessary for survival. You want to try telling that to the families of the Florida victims? And then the conversation continued for **another** few dozen posts with no reference to you whatsoever, much less any “attacks” on you. So since your attention-seeking had been largely ineffective, you decided to bang your anti-liberal drum even louder in post #315: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > These kids are merely parroting sentiments that have been fed to them by leftie educators. Further, the media, in its typical left-wing bias, is only reporting on them and not the ones who realize the problem in with people in today’s society and not guns. And that gratuitous insult to the student survivors of the shooting finally got you the attention you were looking for, with several outraged and insulting responses. You doubled down on your anti-liberal hyperbole and basked in your illusion of being unfairly attacked. And that’s how it’s been going for the subsequent ten pages. **And now you want to try to pretend that it’s your “attackers” that have been gratuitously “derailing” the thread. Nonsense. The rest of the posters in this thread were exchanging occasional remarks with you in a reasonable and on-topic way, until you finally managed to bait them into real outrage by ratcheting up your usual tired anti-liberal schtick to mean-spirited disparagement of traumatized teenagers as the “parrots” of “leftie educators”.** This board has been **incredibly** patient with your constant Johnny-One-Note bleating about “liberals” and “counterculture” and “1960s” as the root of all modern ills. You constantly show up in threads waving around outrageous remarks to provoke people into fights about those favorite topics of yours, whether they’re actually relevant to the thread topic or not, and then whine that other people are spontaneously picking on you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/823 "2018-03-02T08:12:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Tell you what…without discussing Paterno at all, do you think all 12-year-old boys have anuses the same height off the ground as toilet paper rolls? Yes or no? > D > p.s., if your answer is “no” then you have a rape victim to apologize to. Hahahah! Do you have even the vaguest idea what a stupid question this is? And why? And in how many ways? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/824 "2018-03-02T12:17:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My adversaries, such as the asshole this post is in response to, were proven wrong in that thread about every single accusation and assumption they made regarding Joe Paterno and they are pissed about it but powerless in the face of facts to contest it. This right here represents the fundamental problem. Sharting has some pathology that will allow him to reinterpret reality so that his position remains unchanged. He really believes that he proved his points in defense of Sandusky and Paterno. He believes that the paper towel tube experiment proved it was physically impossible to engage in standing anal sex with a child. His delusion leads him to call someone with that exoerience in real life a liar. Given these cognitive problems, it is no surprise that he has participated here for 15 years and his basic premise - that liberals of the 60s ruined America - remains entirely unchanged. How many people have provided him with evidence inconsistent with that premise? How many threads has he derailed in debate about this preposterous cultural explanation for everything? Yet if you ask him, he will tell you that he has bested everyone who has engaged with him on that hypothesis. The paper towel tube is iconic because it’s both ludicrous and representative of how far he will go in defense of a proposition, with no self-awareness and with complete disconnection from reality. He brings no value, and is instead disruptive and loathsome. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/825 "2018-03-02T12:36:37Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This right here represents the fundamental problem. Sharting has some pathology that will allow him to reinterpret reality so that his position remains unchanged. > > He really believes that he proved his points in defense of Sandusky and Paterno. He believes that the paper towel tube experiment proved it was physically impossible to engage in standing anal sex with a child. His delusion leads him to call someone with that exoerience in real life a liar. > > Given these cognitive problems, it is no surprise that he has participated here for 15 years and his basic premise - that liberals of the 60s ruined America - remains entirely unchanged. How many people have provided him with evidence inconsistent with that premise? How many threads has he derailed in debate about this preposterous cultural explanation for everything? Yet if you ask him, he will tell you that he has bested everyone who has engaged with him on that hypothesis. > > The paper towel tube is iconic because it’s both ludicrous and representative of how far he will go in defense of a proposition, with no self-awareness and with complete disconnection from reality. > > He brings no value, and is instead disruptive and loathsome. SA’s the Donnie Trump of the SDMB! ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/826 "2018-03-02T13:26:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hahahah! Do you have even the vaguest idea what a stupid question this is? And why? And in how many ways? Ooh! He’s using the villain laugh! Boys, hide your anuses, SA’s about to get probing! ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/827 "2018-03-02T15:16:59Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Ooh! He’s using the villain laugh! Boys, hide your anuses, SA’s about to get probing! Lock up your buttholes! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/828 "2018-03-02T15:42:44Z")
Shots fired at Central Michigan University, two known shot, shooter still at large. > **[Son arrested in shooting deaths of parents at Central Michigan University | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/central-michigan-university-shots-fired/index.html)** > > A Michigan college student accused of killing his parents at a campus residence hall was arrested early Saturday after a nearly daylong manhunt. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/829 "2018-03-02T16:02:55Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Shots fired at Central Michigan University, two known shot, shooter still at large. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/central-michigan-university-shots-fired/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/central-michigan-university-shots-fired/index.html) Forget it Jake, it’s SAtown… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/830 "2018-03-02T16:04:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Are you kidding? **Liberal** LIVED to hijack threads, and was constantly accusing people of lying, of attacking him, and was always playing the martyr. I wouldn’t stay he was stupid, but the guy was the drama queen to end all drama queens. **Starving Artist** is a rank amateur compared to **Lib**. Oh Jesus yes, EVERYTHING was about libertarianism and if you didn’t swallow it hook line and sinker then you merely had to be educated. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/831 "2018-03-02T17:13:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hahahah! Do you have even the vaguest idea what a stupid question this is? And why? And in how many ways? Trying to talk about dead kids here, if you would please stop with all of your trolling and lying (by which, I mean **all** of your posts), it would be appreciated, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/832 "2018-03-02T17:16:30Z")
[Tucker Carlson Turns On Trump: ‘Imagine If Barack Obama Had Said That’](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tucker-carlson-trump-guns_us_5a990a7de4b0a0ba4ad203e2) > [@](#): > > Fox News host Tucker Carlson doesn’t criticize Donald Trump very often, but he did so on Thursday night after the president suggested taking guns away from potentially dangerous people before due process. > > “Imagine if Barack Obama had said that,” Carlson said. “Just ignore due process and start confiscating guns.” > > Carlson said Obama would’ve been “denounced as a dictator” for making such a comment. > > “We would have denounced him first, trust me,” Carlson said. “Congress would be talking impeachment right now. Some would be muttering about secession.” He still managed to get in a dig on Democrats, hinting that Trump is becoming more like a dictatorial Democrat. > [@](#): > > Carlson also had a warning for Trump about Constitutional rights: > > “Those rights are what makes us citizens and not mere subjects of the powerful, and the president needs to be reminded of that. Maybe we all do once in a while. If voters wanted that kind of government, they could have voted Democrat, and actually they still have a chance to vote Democrat in the midterms, which he should keep in mind.” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/833 "2018-03-02T17:54:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Shots fired at Central Michigan University, two known shot, shooter still at large. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/central-michigan-university-shots-fired/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/central-michigan-university-shots-fired/index.html) Eh, only two dead, first reports saying it’s nonstudents (despite happening in a dorm), some sort of “domestic dispute” – nothing to see here, move along. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/834 "2018-03-02T18:45:37Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Eh, only two dead, first reports saying it’s nonstudents (despite happening in a dorm), some sort of “domestic dispute” – nothing to see here, move along. The two dead are just Crisis Actors working for Soros… Right guys? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/835 "2018-03-02T19:06:18Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Eh, only two dead, first reports saying it’s nonstudents (despite happening in a dorm), some sort of “domestic dispute” – nothing to see here, move along. Just like the 7th grader in Ohio, who was planning to kill a bunch of students with a semiautomatic rifle, but then just killed himself in the bathroom. Just a suicide - no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/836 "2018-03-05T16:05:28Z")
Has [Thoughts & Prayers – The Game](http://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/) received adequate coverage? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/837 "2018-03-05T16:55:53Z")
[Florida students say hero teacher was really a ‘coward’ who left them to die](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-students-say-hero-teacher-was-really-a-coward-who-left-them-to-die/ar-BBJRqgr?li=BBnb7Kz) > [@](#): > > In recent days, however, students Josh Gallagher and Connor Dietrich have expressed contempt at Gard on Twitter. Josh said Gard “called himself a hero, and … the media portrayed him as a hero when in reality he is the opposite.” > > Josh said he was in Gard’s class when the fire alarm went off and the students filed out. When they heard gunshots, about 15 of them froze before racing back to the classroom. Gard, however, had locked the door and refused to let them in. You know, I really do not want this to be true. > [@](#): > > Gard expressed shock at the accusations, telling the South Florida Sun-Sentinel he followed protocol that requires to keep doors locked during an active shooter drill or real emergency. He said six students followed him back into the room. > > “I looked back down the hall and no one was around — no one,” he said. “You have to close the door. That’s protocol. We have no choice." > > He said he and the six students were huddled in the dark when they heard banging on the door. He said he is prohibited from opening the door but did walk over to it. The banging, however, had stopped. > > “Fast forward to Sunday, when the parents came back for an open house,” Gard told the Sun-Sentinel. “All of a sudden this kid comes over and starts screaming at me. Then his father started screaming at me. This is insane.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/838 "2018-03-05T22:50:48Z")
I don’t really see a discrepancy in what he said and what they said, other than their implied claim of maliciousness and selfishness. And I find his explanation to be perfectly defensible. He brought back the kids, looked in the hall, didn’t see anyone, and closed the door. They didn’t arrive until after this had happened, and banged on the door for a bit. He, of course, did not open it, as he is not supposed to. Then, he got to the point where he was going to the door, but they had, by then, found someone else who took them in. Or they’d just stopped banging and went off to find someone else. I mean, they admit to freezing up. That allows plenty of time for everything he said to have happened, if they weren’t in his hallway when they froze. The only thing that would make him look bad to me would be if the policy is that students will return to their previous classroom. Then I would argue he should let them in. And, even then, I’d allow for the explicit instructions of keeping the door locked to override the idea of maybe checking. Finally, I have already said that I am fundamentally against treating people badly for being scared. Sorry, but the idea that being afraid is wrong is dangerous and unhealthy. So, even if he was a “coward,” I would think no worse of him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=41)