# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/121 "2018-02-16T00:41:43Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > But…but…but… All the prays! > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/house/359079-paul-ryan-praying-is-the-right-thing-to-do-after-mass-shootings-because-it](http://thehill.com/homenews/house/359079-paul-ryan-praying-is-the-right-thing-to-do-after-mass-shootings-because-it) > > I got into it (as civilly as I could) with one of my nieces on FB after I criticized Ryan for praying but doing nothing else. She defended him on the grounds that prayer works, the shootings are a “hearts problem,” and gun control “doesn’t work” and people should be able to buy what they want as long as they don’t have a criminal background. Here’s a rebuttal for her: Ryan can pray just as well inside or outside of government. The point of government is to solve public problems by worldly means, however much faith one also has in one’s deity, so maybe Ryan and like-minded folks should step aside and let those of us who might try such worldly solutions give it a try, since prayer doesn’t seem to be working worth a damn in solving the gun massacre problem. Also too, maybe Ryan should drop out of government and treat taxes as a ‘heart problem.’ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/122 "2018-02-16T00:42:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I wouldn’t really mind it if got removed, as I don’t think it would really hurt the right to actually own a gun. Nitpick: of course repealing the Second Amendment **would** really hurt—in fact, annihilate—the **right** to own a gun. That would be the point. But I agree with you that it wouldn’t really impact most Americans’ **ability** to own a gun, in practical terms. Nor would I want it to. > [@BigT](#): > > All I want is a culture where we can enact reasonable restrictions without the NRA lying about it being about taking away all guns and those who listen to them believing it. Heck, that may be the solution: have reasonable gun owners infiltrate the NRA. I think the problem is that this whole attitude and culture surrounding guns is centered on this fundamental delusional ideal of gun ownership as an extremely important basic right and crucial to the preservation of our freedom as a people. As long as gun-ideologues keep drinking that Kool-Aid, they are never going to be accessible to ideas of reasonable gun ownership. Ultimately, the only solution will be to throw the Kool-Aid away. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/123 "2018-02-16T01:45:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > potty mouthed, Oh fuck off with this little schtick of your’s. If you don’t like swearing, don’t post in the Pit. Otherwise, fucking deal with it and quit fucking whining. It’s incredibly annoying and makes you look like a butthurt little twerp. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/124 "2018-02-16T02:58:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You know what this nut did or was thinking how? And deranged, potty mouthed, hysterical loons like yourself are what’s contributing to this society being, in many ways, dysfunctional. At least when I kiss my mother with this mouth, _I_ don’t slip her my tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/125 "2018-02-16T04:04:41Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > 18 school shootings around the world in 20 years, 18 school shootings since January in the good old Murica. That statement is incorrect. There have not been 18 school shootings since January. > **[No, there have not been 18 school shootings so far in 2018 - Washington Examiner](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/329454/no-there-have-not-been-18-school-shootings-so-far-in-2018/)** > > What we saw at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., is no less shocking and horrific than every school shooting we've seen since Columbine in 1999. Seventeen people were killed at the hands of 19-year-old shooting suspect Nikolas... ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/126 "2018-02-16T04:57:23Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That statement is incorrect. There have not been 18 school shootings since January. > > [http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-there-have-not-been-18-school-shootings-so-far-in-2018/article/2649183](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-there-have-not-been-18-school-shootings-so-far-in-2018/article/2649183) were shots fired at 18 different school properties since January 1? ETA: I am of the opinion that some don’t count - like the cases where a gun was fired by accident, or when a suicidal adult kills himself in a school parking lot - but you can’t simply dismiss them using the language that there were not 18 "school shootings. " ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/127 "2018-02-16T05:03:28Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > were shots fired at 18 different school properties since January 1? > > ETA: I am of the opinion that some don’t count - like the cases where a gun was fired by accident, or when a suicidal adult kills himself in a school parking lot - but you can’t simply dismiss them using the language that there were not 18 "school shootings. " Do you understand the fallacy of false equivalence? Ahh, you edited. In talking about this particular issue, some do not count and it is being widely spread as the same type of situation. They aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/128 "2018-02-16T05:11:51Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > There have not been 18 school shootings since January. Depends how you define the term. The gun-control advocacy organization that tracks those statistics apparently defines it as follows: _“any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds, as documented by the press and, when necessary, confirmed through further inquiries with law enforcement or school officials”_. I agree that not every such incident involves a mass killing or even a deliberate attempt to hurt someone. But most of them apparently do involve some kind of intentional firearm violence. From your own link: > [@](#): > > 1. A man committed suicide using a gun in an elementary school parking lot when the school was closed and there were no children present in Clinton County, Mich., on Jan. 3. > > 2. Shots were fired at New Start High School near Burien, Wash., on Jan. 4. No one was hurt or injured, and no suspects were apprehended. [From the linked article: “Officials said a round was fired from outside of the school around 1:15 p.m. into the main administrative office. The office was occupied at the time.”] > > \*3) A 32-year-old man shot a pellet gun at a school bus, shattering a window, in Forest City, Iowa, on Jan. 6. No injuries were reported, and the suspect was apprehended. > > 1. A Grayson College student confused a real gun with a training gun and accidentally fired a bullet into a wall on Jan. 10. No injuries were reported. > > 2. A 14-year-old seventh-grade student shot and killed himself inside the bathroom of Coronado Elementary School in Cochise County, Ariz., on Jan. 10. > > 3. Gunshots were fired at a campus building at Cal State San Bernardino on Jan. 10. No injuries were reported. > > 4. Two people in a car exchanged gunfire at a Wiley College dorm parking lot on Jan. 15. No deaths or injuries were reported and no suspects were arrested, however, one bullet was fired into a dorm room with three female students inside. > > 5. A Winston-Salem State University football player was shot and killed at a sorority party following an argument in Winston-Salem, N.C., on Jan. 20. > > 6. A 16-year-old male student shot a 15-year-old female student in the cafeteria at Italy High School in Italy, Texas, on Jan. 22. While the victim was injured, she was expected to make a full recovery. The shooter was arrested and charged with two counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. This one we would probably all refer to as a proper “school shooting.” > > 7. An unknown assailant in a pickup truck drove by the NET Charter High School in Gentilly, La., and shot at a group of students on Jan. 22. A 14-year-old boy was initially thought to have suffered a gunshot graze, but it turned out to be an abrasion. > > 8. A 15-year-old male student shot and killed two students and wounded 18 others at Marshall County High School in Benton, Ky., on Jan. 23. The shooter was apprehended. > > 9. A 16-year-old student fired a gun at another 16-year-old student during an altercation at Murphy High School in Mobile, Ala., on Jan. 25. No injuries were reported and the suspect was taken into custody. > > 10. Shots were fired in the parking lot during an altercation between two nonstudents during a basketball at Dearborn High School in Dearborn, Mich., on Jan. 26. No injuries were reported, and no suspects were arrested. > > 11. A 32-year-old man was shot and killed in the parking lot outside Lincoln High School in Philadelphia, Penn., on Jan. 31 during what police believed to be an altercation between students from rival schools. No suspects were arrested. > > 12. A 12-year-old female student accidentally fired a real gun thinking it was a fake gun. Four students were injured, including one who suffered a gunshot wound to the head, at Sal Castro Middle School in Los Angeles on Feb. 1. The 12-year-old girl was taken into custody. > > 13. A teenage boy was shot in the chest and nearly killed by another student who conspired with the boy’s ex-girlfriend in the parking lot of Oxon Hill High School in Oxon Hill, Md., on Feb. 5. The suspect was taken into custody and charged with attempted murder. > > 14. A third-grade student pulled the trigger of a police officer’s holstered weapon at the Harmony Learning Center in Maplewood, Minn., on Feb. 5. No injuries were reported. > > 15. A 17-year-old student was arrested after firing a gun into the floor of a classroom of Metropolitan High School in the Bronx, N.Y., on Feb. 8. > > 16. The shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., on Wednesday that left 17 dead. ISTM that all of those except 4, 15 and possibly 17 and/or 18 were either definitely or likely deliberate forms of firearms violence, whether they caused death/injury or not. #1 and #5 were apparently suicides, but AFAICT that still qualifies as a form of firearms violence. Note also that even shootings that fortunately didn’t hurt anybody, and may have been intended to scare rather than to injure, still place a heavy drain on schools’ time and resources when they have to lock the place down for hours to make sure they’re not underestimating a genuine threat. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/129 "2018-02-16T05:14:39Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > Do you understand the fallacy of false equivalence? > > Ahh, you edited. In talking about this particular issue, some do not count and it is being widely spread as the same type of situation. They aren’t. I edited for clarity. Technically speaking, shots were fired at 18 different locations in a school setting. I dont think cases where an adult man commits suicide in a school parking lot “count,” but technically speaking - shots were fired. While watching cnn coverage of the Parkland tragedy, someone said “depending on how you parse the numbers, it’s now between (not sure, here, maybe) 14 and 18 school shootings this year” and I was driven to look it up. I am reluctant, personally, to call it a “school shooting” if it was an accidental discharge, or an unrelated random person who chose a school for his final moments. That’s because “school shooting” implies deliberate violence, and at least injury. A LOT of the cases being bandied about as an official number are not at all that same situation. But it is still too many fucking guns being discharged, whether deliberately or accidentally, around schoolchildren. 18 cases of armed people being violent, self destructive, or careless around kids. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/130 "2018-02-16T05:24:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Depends how you define the term. The gun-control advocacy organization that tracks those statistics apparently defines it as follows: _“any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds, as documented by the press and, when necessary, confirmed through further inquiries with law enforcement or school officials”_. > > I agree that not every such incident involves a mass killing or even a deliberate attempt to hurt someone. But most of them apparently do involve some kind of intentional firearm violence. From your own link: > ISTM that all of those except 4, 15 and possibly 17 and/or 18 were either definitely or likely deliberate forms of firearms violence, whether they caused death/injury or not. #1 and #5 were apparently suicides, but AFAICT that still qualifies as a form of firearms violence. > > Note also that even shootings that fortunately didn’t hurt anybody, and may have been intended to scare rather than to injure, still place a heavy drain on schools’ time and resources when they have to lock the place down for hours to make sure they’re not underestimating a genuine threat. Well, you’ve not included #3 which was a pellet gun, or the suicides. Nor have you addressed the media reporting which considers each of these incidents equivalent to the horrendous massacre in south florida. The reality is terrible enough. We don’t need to prop it up with misinformation and lies. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/131 "2018-02-16T05:36:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I edited for clarity. Technically speaking, shots were fired at 18 different locations in a school setting. I dont think cases where an adult man commits suicide in a school parking lot “count,” but technically speaking - shots were fired. > > While watching cnn coverage of the Parkland tragedy, someone said “depending on how you parse the numbers, it’s now between (not sure, here, maybe) 14 and 18 school shootings this year” and I was driven to look it up. I am reluctant, personally, to call it a “school shooting” if it was an accidental discharge, or an unrelated random person who chose a school for his final moments. That’s because “school shooting” implies deliberate violence, and at least injury. A LOT of the cases being bandied about as an official number are not at all that same situation. > > But it is still too many fucking guns being discharged, whether deliberately or accidentally, around schoolchildren. 18 cases of armed people being violent, self destructive, or careless around kids. Look, I agree (who wouldn’t) that gun violence is terrible and shouldn’t happen in schools (or anywhere). The problem is that this sort of argument leads to unnecessary bickering about well, the one time it was a pellet gun, or ther one guy killed himself on school property when no kids were there…but then equals every 60 hours in the US there is a school shooting. It panics people, polarizes politics and ultimates leads to nothing really happening. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/132 "2018-02-16T05:58:36Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > Well, you’ve not included #3 which was a pellet gun, or the suicides. 😕 Did you not read my reference to the suicides in the excerpt from my post that you yourself just quoted? > [@keturah](#): > > Nor have you addressed the media reporting which considers each of these incidents equivalent to the horrendous massacre in south florida. If you point me to an instance of media reporting which falsely claims that each of these incidents is equivalent to the horrendous massacre yesterday, I will happily condemn it as inaccurate and dishonest. But I don’t think the mere act of referring to incidents where one or more shots were fired on school property as “school shootings” warrants condemnation. > [@keturah](#): > > The problem is that this sort of argument leads to unnecessary bickering If you (and **Clothahump** ) consider it “unnecessary bickering” to discuss what kinds of firearm violence have recently taken place in schools and what such incidents should be called, then maybe you shouldn’t have brought the subject up in the first place? Sounds like you just want to foster the idea that _“oh, the media is exaggerating gun violence in schools”_ while hoping that people don’t start examining or discussing the specifics of how much gun violence actually **is** occurring in schools. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/133 "2018-02-16T06:05:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 Did you not read my reference to the suicides in the excerpt from my post that you yourself just quoted? > > If you point me to an instance of media reporting which falsely claims that each of these incidents is equivalent to the horrendous massacre yesterday, I will happily condemn it as inaccurate and dishonest. > > But I don’t think the mere act of referring to incidents where one or more shots were fired on school property as “school shootings” warrants condemnation. > If you (and **Clothahump** ) consider it “unnecessary bickering” to discuss what kinds of firearm violence have recently taken place in schools and what such incidents should be called, then maybe you shouldn’t have brought the subject up in the first place? > > Sounds like you just want to foster the idea that _“oh, the media is exaggerating gun violence in schools”_ while hoping that people don’t start examining or discussing the specifics of how much gun violence actually **is** occurring in schools. I’m not going to line by line quote you, and I think it is interesting that you equate me to a known hard core right leaning individual. You are off the mark, friend. I just think that it is irresponsible journalism to overinflate the “school massacres” to include such things as a pellet gun and a well after school hours suicide. If we can’t be honest about the reality of the problem we can’t begin to solve it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/134 "2018-02-16T06:34:17Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > I’m not going to line by line quote you, and I think it is interesting that you equate me to a known hard core right leaning individual. > [@keturah](#): > > I just think that it is irresponsible journalism to overinflate the “school massacres” to include such things as a pellet gun and a well after school hours suicide. Like I said, if you’ve got a specific instance of actual false reporting on that issue that you want condemned—as opposed to the mere use of the term “school shooting” to include certain types of shootings on school property that you don’t think are particularly important—then point me to it and I’ll be happy to condemn it. But I think complaining that it’s “irresponsible” for the media to refer to certain types of shootings that occur at schools as “school shootings” is not a very sensible choice of a hill to die on, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/135 "2018-02-16T13:39:34Z")
Really? Are we really quibbling over whether there were eighteen school shootings since the beginning of the year or only as few as one or two a week? Isn’t one school shooting in a month or one in a year too much? Shouldn’t we have done something long ago? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/136 "2018-02-16T13:47:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > To be fair, the rate of school shootings does drop off sharply during the summer months. That was dark, but I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/137 "2018-02-16T14:00:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I think you missed the part where arresting people for illegal gun possession would not actually have stopped this most recent school shooter, who [purchased his gun legally](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-shooting-suspect-bought-gun-legally-authorities-say/340606002/). > > Same for the Las Vegas shooter, and the Sandy Hook one, and dozens more. Gun massacres in this country are not primarily an illegal-possession problem. Which just goes to show that it’s too easy to buy guns legally in the US. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/138 "2018-02-16T14:03:42Z")
Now I’m wondering if my rhododendrons would perk up with some extra iron. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/139 "2018-02-16T14:12:03Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > I’m not going to line by line quote you, and I think it is interesting that you equate me to a known hard core right leaning individual. You are off the mark, friend. I just think that it is irresponsible journalism to overinflate the “school massacres” to include such things as a pellet gun and a well after school hours suicide. Did the media report that there were 18 “school massacres” this year? No, they reported that here were 18 (reported) gun related incidents on or involving school property, shortened as “school shootings”. You then falsely equivelated the word “shooting” to “massacre” in order to try to discredit that. The media is not over inflating “school massacres”. You are the one that is claiming that the media is referring to these shootings as massacres. > [@](#): > > If we can’t be honest about the reality of the problem we can’t begin to solve it. Good point, you start. ETA: This is an [overreaction](http://www.journal-news.com/news/local-education/butler-county-sheriff-stop-school-fire-drills-add-armed-personnel/1YgbVaOYtbIWwiF1awm8lJ/). > [@](#): > > Schools should stop doing fire drills and allow armed former police and military veterans into buildings to help protect students, said Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/140 "2018-02-16T14:28:51Z")
To be fair, I suppose a large segment of consumers of prepackaged news are likely to take “school shooting” to mean active-shooter-on-premises incidents, as those are the ones that make the national headlines. But even FoxNews quotes the “18” figure. And no, heck no, no armed “volunteers” at the school. Raise some tax (on gun sales?) and spend the cash to put in a professional specifically trained for the environment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=8)