# The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854 "2018-02-15T02:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/161 "2018-02-16T17:20:16Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Despite the propaganda, people in Canada, Britain, Australia, etc etc etc can and do own guns. Their laws are stricter and more clearly laid out. Also, despite the propaganda, you can have very strict gun laws, and yet still have anyone who wants a gun having a gun. Switzerland is often trotted out as a country with a comparable number of guns per capita to the US, but it is never mentioned that their gun laws are far stricter than anything ever seriously proposed in this country. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/162 "2018-02-16T17:38:44Z")
> [@B-Rad](#): > > Not at all. Federal politicians take heat for doing nothing, and an event like this too close to an election can seriously threaten electability of a pro-gun congresscritter. Appealing the 2nd amendment will be enormously difficult if the majority of people in this country are still conditioned to think guns are essential to a free society. In a week, all this “federal heat” you’re talking about will be gone when focus shifts to some other thing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/163 "2018-02-16T17:45:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Appealing the 2nd amendment will be enormously difficult if the majority of people in this country are still conditioned to think guns are essential to a free society. In a week, all this “federal heat” you’re talking about will be gone when focus shifts to some other thing. Well, until the next school massacre. And then the focus will shift until the next one. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/164 "2018-02-16T17:47:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But I do think fundamentally we need to change how we view guns and the people who collect them. It’s time we view them like we do people who take up smoking and ask “What’s the hell is wrong with you?” We need to stop normalizing gun ownership and make it become a thing that opens you up to raised eyebrows and judgement. Seriously. I own a couple guns. I do not “collect” them, anymore than I collect chainsaws of which I own two. They are tools that sometimes are necessary. In the past ten years I’ve handled my guns three times. Once to shoot a fox that was a danger to our dogs/chickens/horses. I submitted the fox to our local Department of Agriculture and it was determined that the fox was rabid. The second time I used one of my guns was to kill a suffering deer. She was hit by a car and managed to crawl into my parking lot at work. I initially called the state game commission who told me a game warden could stop out in a few days. Rather than wait, I called the PA state police (we have no local police force where I work). The officer who responded felt bad, but he explained that he is not allowed to discharge his firearm for wildlife. I drove home, returned with a gun, and killed the deer. The third time involved a car that drove down our private road at 3 am on a weeknight. I went out with my gun at my side to see what was up. The driver turned out to be very drunk and very lost. I told him I was calling the police and he drove off. Just sayin. I live “in the country” where most of my neighbors own guns. I do not know anyone who collects them, or who owns AKs or the like. If getting rid of my 2 guns would stop kids being shot down in school I’d happily give them up, but until then I’m happy knowing that if I need one I have one. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/165 "2018-02-16T17:51:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, until the next school massacre. > > And then the focus will shift until the next one. Maybe I’ve been looking in the wrong places, but I haven’t heard or read “Now is not the time” this time, or the last few, either. Thoughts ‘n’ Prayers, yes, a gutsful. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/166 "2018-02-16T17:58:44Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Despite the propaganda, people in Canada, Britain, Australia, etc etc etc can and do own guns. Their laws are stricter and more clearly laid out. I’m willing to have a discussion about who gets to have guns after the second amendment is repealed. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/167 "2018-02-16T18:00:31Z")
> [@B-Rad](#): > > Meanwhile I notice nobody’s too interested about doing anything about the annual 37,000± (similar number to gun deaths–including suicides, pretty sure close to none of the car crashes were suicides). Sure thy have. We have traffic laws, car licensing, seat belt laws, DWI laws, training requirements, registration, safety manufacturing standards, that hold car companies libel, also studying traffic[safety is not prohibited by law](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/04/gun-violence-research-has-been-shut-down-for-20-years/?utm_term=.13d7ac3f94d5). If the same amount of regulation that has been applied to cars was applied to guns I would be as happy as a clam. Also note that the car use in the united states is far far more prevalent than gun use. Americans drive an average of over 48 minutes a day. I doubt that guns get quite so much use. So comparing gun deaths directly to traffic deaths is problematic. You might as well say that shooting a gun is more dangerous than eating cyanide because more people die each year from guns, than from cyanide. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/168 "2018-02-16T18:16:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Also, despite the propaganda, you can have very strict gun laws, and yet still have anyone who wants a gun having a gun. > > Switzerland is often trotted out as a country with a comparable number of guns per capita to the US, but it is never mentioned that their gun laws are far stricter than anything ever seriously proposed in this country. Well maybe it is time to change that. Another thing to remember… In addition to the lame ass attempt to blame the victims “for not reporting enough”, Trump and the rest of the “thoughts and prayers” bastards are: 1. Blaming it on the lack of health care - which they are trying to destroy and 1. Calling for more data (Ryan e.g.) from the CDC on guns - knowing full well that thanks to lobbying money from the NRA, they made damn sure the CDC would never and could never collect. Former Rep. David Jolly ( **R** -Fla.) on Wednesday argued American voters must flip the House of Representatives to a Democratic majority if they want Congress to address gun control in the wake of a Florida high school shooting that left at least 17 people dead and others injured. “And so if this is the issue that defines your ideology as a voter, there are two things I would suggest tonight. First, flip the House. Flip the House,” Jolly told “CNN Tonight.” “Republicans are not going to do a single thing after this shooting we saw today. But I would also offer to Democrats, work for incremental wins.” “The idea of gun policy in the Republican Party is to try to get a speaking slot at the NRA and prove to that constituency that you’re further right than generations past of Republicans have been on guns,” he said. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xb8Uid-G3Yc/hqdefault.jpg "Ex-GOP Lawmaker Admits Republicans Don't Care About Mass Shootings") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb8Uid-G3Yc) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/169 "2018-02-16T18:21:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, partly from his own Instagram accounts, where [he posted several pictures of assorted firearms and ammunition, in addition to a MAGA-hat avatar](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html). (Along with photos involving animal cruelty and other lovely stuff.) > > We also have information from the leader of a local white nationalist group that he participated in paramilitary drills with them. > Gee, **octopus** , that’s quite some bothsidesism you’ve got going there. _“I mean sure, on one hand we’ve got a weapons-obsessed toad-stomping white-nationalist-paramilitary MAGA-hat-wearing mass-murdering ‘nut’. But on the other hand, we’ve got the likes of **Czarcasm** angrily using profanity on an internet messageboard! Really, is it any wonder our society’s in so much turmoil? When will they ever learn?”_ You don’t think the problem lies between the ears of people? And what influences the brain? Genetics and the environment. A nasty hostile society leads to discord and fighting. Oh look what showed up below. A nasty old hen. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh fuck off with this little schtick of your’s. If you don’t like swearing, don’t post in the Pit. Otherwise, fucking deal with it and quit fucking whining. It’s incredibly annoying and makes you look like a butthurt little twerp. Tsk tsk. I’ll post where I want to and how I want to. Being a nasty, bitter, old hag isn’t a requirement for posting in the Pit. Potty mouth. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/170 "2018-02-16T18:24:45Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m willing to have a discussion about who gets to have guns after the second amendment is repealed. Why repeal it? I suspect an “all or nothing” is going on. The other Amendments have enumerated inalienable rights that still somehow manage to have limits, why not the 2nd? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/171 "2018-02-16T18:24:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Tsk tsk. I’ll post where I want to and how I want to. Being a nasty, bitter, old hag isn’t a requirement for posting in the Pit. Potty mouth. You can shit it out, but you just can’t take it. Why don’t you fuck off until you grow into your big boy pants? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/172 "2018-02-16T18:30:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You can shit it out, but you just can’t take it. > Why don’t you fuck off until you grow into your big boy pants? I have that mother fucker on Ignore for a reason. Don’t MAKE me come over there 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/173 "2018-02-16T18:34:34Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Sure thy have. We have traffic laws, car licensing, seat belt laws, DWI laws, training requirements, registration, safety manufacturing standards, that hold car companies libel, also studying traffic[safety is not prohibited by law](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/04/gun-violence-research-has-been-shut-down-for-20-years/?utm_term=.13d7ac3f94d5). > > If the same amount of regulation that has been applied to cars was applied to guns I would be as happy as a clam. > > Also note that the car use in the united states is far far more prevalent than gun use. Americans drive an average of over 48 minutes a day. I doubt that guns get quite so much use. So comparing gun deaths directly to traffic deaths is problematic. You might as well say that shooting a gun is more dangerous than eating cyanide because more people die each year from guns, than from cyanide. All fair points. Although I’ve never been square with making gun manufacturers liable for massacres. Gun was functioning as designed, after all, and I’m not convinced the manufacturers are the ones primarily responsible for fetishizing the things. Bruce Willis, Clint Eastwood, Sylvester Stallone, etc., and their studios & producers, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/174 "2018-02-16T18:35:03Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Former Rep. David Jolly ( **R** -Fla.) on Wednesday argued American voters must flip the House of Representatives to a Democratic majority if they want Congress to address gun control Does that have something to do with why he’s a \*former \*Rep.? A current R Rep. wouldn’t dare suggest that. A former or current R Rep. with an actual sense of Country First would no longer be an R. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/175 "2018-02-16T18:37:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You can shit it out, but you just can’t take it. > Why don’t you fuck off until you grow into your big boy pants? Can you read? Just because the Pit allows one to act like a savage doesn’t mean one is compelled to. And it’s weird that you identify being grown as being abrasive, vulgar, and unhinged. I’m more worried about people like you on the loose and behind the wheel than a random inanimate object. > [@SteveG1](#): > > I have that mother fucker on Ignore for a reason. > > Don’t MAKE me come over there 😃 Someone thinks the rules don’t apply to him/her. You’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/176 "2018-02-16T18:38:12Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I have that mother fucker on Ignore for a reason. > > Don’t MAKE me come over there 😃 [Moderating] Don’t call other posters “mother fuckers.” No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/177 "2018-02-16T18:39:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Does that have something to do with why he’s a \*former \*Rep.? A current R Rep. wouldn’t dare suggest that. A former or current R Rep. with an actual sense of Country First would no longer be an R. I’m not sure if he is a former Republican, or just a former Representative (or Senator). I don’t know. But he’s right. We have to vote a LOT of people out, at all levels of gubmint. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/178 "2018-02-16T18:42:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Can you read? Just because the Pit allows one to act like a savage doesn’t mean one is compelled to. And it’s weird that you identify being grown as being abrasive, vulgar, and unhinged. I’m more worried about people like you on the loose and behind the wheel than a random inanimate object. What are you going to do-Tell your mommy? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/179 "2018-02-16T18:44:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m not sure if he is a former Republican, or just a former Representative (or Senator). I don’t know. [Former Representative, still (R).](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jolly) > [@](#): > > But he’s right. We have to vote a LOT of people out, at all levels of gubmint. Yep. Maybe he’d like to go back in, if he can be counted on to vote responsibly next time. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854/180 "2018-02-16T18:47:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Just because the Pit allows one to act like a savage doesn’t mean one is compelled to. The power of christ compels you to act like a savage!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tree-of-liberty-needs-to-be-watered-with-the-blood-of-school-children/808854.md?page=10)