# The tremendous new burden of taxes **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 19, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670 "2013-01-19T00:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/21 "2013-01-19T05:01:53Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > “oh noes, how can we manage to struggle through on our fixed income of $180,000 a year?” What are they so sad about anyway? Their taxes didn’t even increase. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/22 "2013-01-19T05:03:21Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > “oh noes, how can we manage to struggle through on our fixed income of $180,000 a year?” Well, that’s the thing, the Black couple were the only ones who won’t be paying more in taxes. :dubious: At least they don’t have 'em laughing and doing a fist bump, so there’s that! ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/23 "2013-01-19T05:17:24Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Well, that’s the thing, the Black couple were the only ones who won’t be paying more in taxes. :dubious: At least they don’t have 'em laughing and doing a fist bump, so there’s that! They are satisfied sending a more subtle message: What do the Kenyan Interloper and the only people who don’t have to pay more taxes have in common? [Things that make you go hmmm…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF2ayWcJfxo) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/24 "2013-01-19T05:20:37Z")
Serious question. Do you realize how little in actual taxes you pay in the US compared to every other industrialized country. No snark. Do you know this? On a family income (two working parents, two kids) of something like $140,00 last year we paid probably $35,000 in income taxes. Although somewhat disconnected we pay much more in fuel tax, and in my province (Ontario) goods and services are taxed a further 13%. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/25 "2013-01-19T05:24:12Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Serious question. Do you realize how little in actual taxes you pay in the US compared to every other industrialized country. No snark. Do you know this? > > On a family income (two working parents, two kids) of something like $140,00 last year we paid probably $35,000 in income taxes. Although somewhat disconnected we pay much more in fuel tax, and in my province (Ontario) goods and services are taxed a further 13%. But we (or our employers) get to pay for our own health care! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/26 "2013-01-19T05:29:55Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > But we (or our employers) get to pay for our own health care! Good point. So tell me, how much tax and health care would your typical $140,000 four person family be paying? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/27 "2013-01-19T05:42:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Serious question. Do you realize how little in actual taxes you pay in the US compared to every other industrialized country. No snark. Do you know this? > > On a family income (two working parents, two kids) of something like $140,00 last year we paid probably $35,000 in income taxes. Although somewhat disconnected we pay much more in fuel tax, and in my province (Ontario) goods and services are taxed a further 13%. You may be looking only at direct federal taxes: they are, AFAIK, the only country where you may find yourself paying income level direct tax at four levels simultaneously (federal, state, county and city). And sales tax can vary from 0% to 15% (or more, 15% is the most I’ve personally paid). ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/28 "2013-01-19T05:47:50Z")
> [@wmulax93](#): > > Yeah… single mom makes $250K? Where is that? Working From Home! PArt Time! On Teh Interwebs! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/29 "2013-01-19T05:50:21Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You may be looking only at direct federal taxes: they are, AFAIK, the only country where you may find yourself paying income level direct tax at four levels simultaneously (federal, state, county and city). And sales tax can vary from 0% to 15% (or more, 15% is the most I’ve personally paid). Well, I pay federal and provincial tax, although they are combined on my tax return and are reflected on the rates previously mentioned. Of course municipal taxes are separate, and for me are somewhere in the $3,500 ballpark annually. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/30 "2013-01-19T06:08:39Z")
Where did they find the retired black couple hauling in $180,000 a year? How many black people are even able to retire? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/31 "2013-01-19T06:16:30Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You may be looking only at direct federal taxes: they are, AFAIK, the only country where you may find yourself paying income level direct tax at four levels simultaneously (federal, state, county and city). And sales tax can vary from 0% to 15% (or more, 15% is the most I’ve personally paid). Wait there are places in the USA with not only state income tax on top of federal, but also county and city income taxes?!?! For real? Thats just crazy, I even think state income taxes are ridiculous(one good thing about Texas). How do they even assess county and city income taxes? By where your job is physically located? ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/32 "2013-01-19T06:17:13Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Where did they find the retired black couple hauling in $180,000 a year? How many black people are even able to retire? Let me close my eyes and imagine how Mittens and/or Faux News would respond to that. Hmmm. Probably all of them based on all of the free stuff they got for voting for Obama. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/33 "2013-01-19T06:32:22Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Good point. So tell me, how much tax and health care would your typical $140,000 four person family be paying? Before I had employer-subsidized group health insurance, we were paying about $800 a month for an individual policy to cover our family of four. That policy had a $1,000 deductible (and no maternity coverage), so we were paying $9,600 a year plus whatever we spent up to the thousand dollars each. Nowadays, I pay about $250 a month for my share of the premium for really good health insurance with very reasonable copays. My hourly pay is really terrible, but it’s worth it for the benefits. So how much a U.S. family of four would pay for health care all depends on where the parents work and how good their health insurance is. Ironically, lower-paying jobs usually also have the worst health coverage. I’m just fortunate enough to work in the public sector. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/34 "2013-01-19T06:33:16Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > “oh noes, how can we manage to struggle through on our fixed income of $180,000 a year?” Not to mention 130kish non-investment income while retired. I know it’s possible with two people maxing SS benefits and a couple decent pensions, but damn. Or else they are drug dealers who report their income. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/35 "2013-01-19T06:42:18Z")
> [@grude](#): > > How do they even assess county and city income taxes? By where your job is physically located? In Ohio, depending on how your city of residence has its taxes set up, you may have to pay municipal income taxes where you work **and** where you live. My city’s income tax is 1.5%, and it has a credit of up to 1.25% for taxes paid to other cities or villages, so you always pay at least 0.25% here no matter where the work was performed. And you have to deal with whatever low-tech, inept office your city of residence has set up to handle taxes. (If you live and work in two different cities, you generally don’t need to deal with the city you work in, since it’s a flat tax and withholding is mandatory for employers within the limits. You generally do need to file a return with the city you live in, though, because they can tax non-employment income and out-of-city employers aren’t required to withhold at all, let alone correctly.) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/36 "2013-01-19T06:55:23Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > In Ohio, depending on how your city of residence has its taxes set up, you may have to pay municipal income taxes where you work **and** where you live. My city’s income tax is 1.5%, and it has a credit of up to 1.25% for taxes paid to other cities or villages, so you always pay at least 0.25% here no matter where the work was performed. > > And you have to deal with whatever low-tech, inept office your city of residence has set up to handle taxes. (If you live and work in two different cities, you generally don’t need to deal with the city you work in, since it’s a flat tax and withholding is mandatory for employers within the limits. You generally do need to file a return with the city you live in, though, because they can tax non-employment income and out-of-city employers aren’t required to withhold at all, let alone correctly.) And just to add to the fun, some school districts in Ohio have a school district income tax, too! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/37 "2013-01-19T06:57:04Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > You generally do need to file a return with the city you live in, though, because they can tax non-employment income and out-of-city employers aren’t required to withhold at all, let alone correctly. Missed the edit window: You only need to file a local tax return here if your city or village has an income tax. You don’t need to file a return on a nonexistent tax. And school districts can also have their own separate income taxes. Those are handled through a central office at the state level, though, and I think the return might be a schedule attached to your state taxes. A proposal was made last year for the state to take over municipal income tax collection, but the cities pitched a huge fit and the state backed down (they _like_ their inconsistent, inept, antiquated tax offices that are staffed by the mayor’s daughter and only take payments in person or by snail mail, damnit). ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/38 "2013-01-19T07:01:22Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Good point. So tell me, how much tax and health care would your typical $140,000 four person family be paying? Again, what is the total burden? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/39 "2013-01-19T12:23:44Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Wait there are places in the USA with not only state income tax on top of federal, but also county and city income taxes?!?! For real? > > Thats just crazy, I even think state income taxes are ridiculous(one good thing about Texas). > > How do they even assess county and city income taxes? By where your job is physically located? That’s at least one way, yes: I had coworkers who had to file taxes at the city where their jobs were located, and a form indicating which days they’d been offsite, as those days didn’t count. Those of us who lived in that city had to file with the city and did not get off-site days discounted. In the immortal words of Asterix: “they’re crazy, these romans!” ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/22080_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670/40 "2013-01-19T12:47:19Z")
How typical are their “investment income” numbers? Do those assume everyone has stocks and bonds? Are 401k accounts or IRAs considered to be investments, or are those savings? In the course of our nearly 30 years together, my husband and I have never had disposable income that we could invest. We haven’t been able to build up much in the way of savings till the last 3 or 4 years, what with bills to pay, a daughter to raise, and having some fun occasionally. We’re looking at retirement in 3 or 4 years, and at $180K “income” per year, our 401k and savings would be pretty much wiped out within three years, leaving us my gummint pension and our social security. Which works, as long as we never need to replace a vehicle, or repair one or take a vacation or keep the house warm in winter. And I know Maryland isn’t the kindest state to retirees when it comes to income taxes, but that’s the price we pay for living where we want to live. No way I’m going back to Florida… I wonder what colors the trees are around the WSJ world?? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tremendous-new-burden-of-taxes/647670.md?page=3)