# The trial of Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos)\[sentenced to 11+ yrs, 18Nov2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2021, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138 "2021-07-10T04:42:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/641 "2023-05-11T02:27:56Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s praising with faint damnation. Now _that_ is a beautiful turn of phrase. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/642 "2023-05-11T03:36:26Z")
I actually _did_ come up with that on the spot, but I’m sure it’s too cute to be truly original. Not going to look for who said it first, though! ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/643 "2023-05-11T03:39:13Z")
Well, it’s still a pretty astute summation of the phenomenon, and applicable to many situations. I may well use it again (so it’s good you’re disclaiming any copyright!). ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/644 "2023-05-11T04:12:41Z")
NM need to check my facts first ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/645 "2023-05-11T11:10:23Z")
As to @Dr.Strangelove’s assessment of the article, rather than just his cool turn of phrase, that’s it exactly. In our modern world where satire needs to be prominently labeled to distinguish it from the insanity that passes for normal any more, this article is an example of something similar where the author leaves us guessing whether they believe Holmes’ garbage and the article is defense / hagiography / a sympathy piece, or they’re just letting her run so she can hang herself for all to see with her own mouth and no help from the author. In that latter, it’s a bit like a famous politician. No matter how obviously awful and false something is, there’s somebody somewhere willing to lap it up as Righteous Truth. Many tens of millions of such somebodies actually. When channeling a crazy person, authors nowadays really need to put a clear warning label on their piece: > CAUTION: Subject is Crazy > You can trust that I’m accurately passing along what they said. But don’t believe _anything_ they said is actually real. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/646 "2023-05-11T11:55:36Z")
The need for such a warning label implies any fault of perception is with the reader. What I would say instead is that it is the author that has erred if they have so superficially described key traits of their subject as to fail to describe key attributes essential to the subject with the intended meaning (eg: Holmes = lying liar who lies) in the text itself. Good journalism doesn’t need warning labels like what you describe. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/647 "2023-05-11T17:06:42Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The fundamental issue with this is (in my opinion) that we don’t follow ethics or morals on a “rational basis”; we do so because we want to see ourselves and want to be seen by others as a ‘good person’… Many of us also do so because ethics and morals in a democratic society typically (but not invariably) are embodied in the criminal law, and we don’t want to go to prison. As Liz ‘n’ Sunny soon will be, and IMHO deservedly so. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/648 "2023-05-11T17:16:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Many of us also do so because ethics and morals in a democratic society typically (but not invariably) are embodied in the criminal law, and we don’t want to go to prison. As Liz ‘n’ Sunny soon will be, and IMHO deservedly so. Clearly, this wasn’t a disincentive to the Theranos scheme of deceptions, and Holmes didn’t think she would be subject to punitive consequences, which just speaks to the lack of rationality in whatever pathology describes her thoughts and behaviors. Sociopaths often believe that they won’t ever be caught, or if they are, that they can just talk their way out of trouble, and in fact this strategy worked for Holmes long after people should have been cognizant of the failings of the purported Theranos blood testing technology. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/649 "2023-05-11T19:50:34Z")
Well, I did say “Many of us.” She is pretty clearly not one of us, at least as far as that goes. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/650 "2023-05-12T00:40:42Z")
There is also doing, or refraining from doing, something because it is simply the right thing to do (without getting into the philosophy of how we might define that), even if one derives no personal benefit from it, even the appearance of doing good, and in fact it may be deleterious to one’s career or have other consequences. But that is merely rational behavior in an appropriately defined sense. For instance, it is rational to want a world in which people do not defraud the medical community so it follows that it is never acceptable to do so yourself. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/651 "2023-05-12T01:02:19Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > For instance, it is rational to want a world in which people do not defraud the medical community so it follows that it is never acceptable to do so yourself. That run of logic only works if you’re not a psychopath. The wire missing in those folks makes the logic run more like: > it is rational to want a world in which people do not defraud the medical community because that will leave more for me to defraud from them. IOW, their thought process amounts to: > The rest of humanity is a faceless undifferentiated horde of useless drones who, to the degree I think of them at all, I want them to behave only in the manner that most benefits me. And I want my behavior to be whatever most benefits me. No other considerations enter into it. It’s the reflexivity, the awareness that you are one of the horde and the horde is composed of people just like you who are each of no lesser nor greater priority than you are that is simply lacking. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/652 "2023-05-17T06:07:03Z")
2 separate rulings went against her today. No, she can’t stay out of prison during her appeal, and she owes more than 450 million in restitution. [Elizabeth Holmes loses latest bid to avoid prison and gets hit with $452 million restitution bill (yahoo.com)](https://www.yahoo.com/news/court-rejects-elizabeth-holmes-motion-003945367.html) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/653 "2023-05-17T13:06:50Z")
Nvm…… ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/654 "2023-05-17T15:06:14Z")
So presumably her next ploy will be to get pregnant again? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/655 "2023-05-17T15:12:11Z")
Yes, and she should get blood lab work done during pregnancy. I wonder what lab she will use. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/656 "2023-05-17T15:18:27Z")
After having had one kid named Invicta (Latin for Invincible), her next one will be named “Sursum Vestri Iudex” (Up yours, judge). Or there could be a very important wedding in Cuba or other nation without an extradition treaty with the U.S., that she absolutely _must_ attend. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/657 "2023-05-17T19:00:39Z")
She has requested May 30th as the day to start her sentence > **[Elizabeth Holmes requests May 30 as new date to report to prison after losing...](https://apnews.com/article/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-prison-reporting-date-9fd718cd012d49f68c654bad89abb0ed)** > > Disgraced Theranos CEO Elizabeth Holmes has asked a federal judge to allow her to remain free through the Memorial Day weekend before surrendering to authorities on May 30. That would be the start of her more than 11-year prison sentence for... ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/658 "2023-05-17T19:57:06Z")
Oh. My. God. Give. Me. A. Flipping. Break. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/659 "2023-05-17T20:14:30Z")
The judge has granted her request. Reports are that she will serve her sentence in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/660 "2023-05-17T20:21:35Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > The judge has granted her request. It’s actually a reasonable accommodation IMHO. For anyone other than Elizabeth Holmes, who I just plain don’t like 😀. But removing my very subjective feelings about her from the equation and, eh, I can’t get that up in arms about this. Unless she manages to flee to Cuba on May 29th with twenty million in smuggled diamonds. THEN I’ll be annoyed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138.md?page=34)