# The trial of Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos)\[sentenced to 11+ yrs, 18Nov2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2021, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138 "2021-07-10T04:42:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/953 "2026-10-22T14:50:55Z")
So, what is this movie? A series of interviews? A more traditional biopic that includes interviews? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/954 "2026-10-22T15:25:22Z")
I attempt to describe it here: > [@You Can See Everything \[Nathan Fielder film\] {Warning: Open Spoilers}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-see-everything-nathan-fielder-film-warning-open-spoilers/1033877/11): > > Gladly. I’m dying to talk about this. (I blurred major spoilers but some may consider more of this spoilery… you are so warned.) I don’t know how familiar you are with Fielder’s work – I’ve only dabbled – but this is an (almost certainly) autistic man who has kind of made a living putting people on. He’s socially awkward but seems to play it up for laughs or to provoke a reaction - often you’re left questioning how much of what you saw was real. The one episode I saw of the Rehearsal impressed … It’s less a formal interview than Fielder and his crew hanging out with Holmes and Evans while they go about their everyday lives, trying to understand what they see. Fielder does ask pointed questions, and appears to get more and more exasperated with Holmes’ stonewalling, but the film ends up going in a completely unexpected direction, such that, by the end, Holmes becomes this lens to examine a wide range of thorny issues, one of which is the inherent subjectivity of trying to make a film like this. It _was_ really entertaining, in a “holy shit is this really happening?” kind of way, and it’s really effective at sucking you into Fielder’s perspective as he is trying to make sense of all this, but it’s not just entertainment fodder. This is a serious film with real artistic merit. I’ve never seen anything quite like it. That said, it’s going to leave the viewer with more questions than answers, so this is not a movie I would recommend to people who want more details about the Theranos scandal or anything like that. I went into it not knowing much about what Holmes actually did and I left it none the wiser. It takes her crimes as a given, and is more interested in exploring the psychology of someone who would do those things - and particularly her effect on other people. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/955 "2026-10-22T15:32:17Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Glad you enjoyed it. I’m still staying away. My time is precious. I’m not a Nathan Fielder fan, and I think Holmes is a horrible human. I didn’t have much opinion of Billy Evans before the movie, but after it, I think he’s even worse than Holmes, if that’s possible. Despite that, it was one of the best movies I’ve ever seen. It made me think like no other movie has. We saw it with two other couples last night, and we all walked out and stood there with our mouths wide open until one of my friends said, “we have GOT to discuss that movie.” ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/956 "2026-10-22T15:35:07Z")
Glad you enjoyed it. What would be the focus of your discussion? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/958 "2026-10-22T15:51:40Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Glad you enjoyed it. What would be the focus of your discussion? There’s the stuff specific to the case: is Holmes a cunning liar? A neurodivergent person who doesn’t understand how normal people think and communicate? A person easily manipulated and controlled by men in her life? A complete sociopath? Some blend of all of them? There’s an underlying theme of manipulation throughout that will be fascinating to examine more closely – Holmes manipulating investors, men potentially manipulating her, Fielder manipulating the audience, Fielder being manipulated by Holmes, entertainment media (like _The Dropout_ series on Hulu) manipulating public opinion. There are questions about the roles and ethics of everyone involved. What responsibility does Fielder have to stay impartial? What is the impact when something like _The Dropout_ presents a slightly fictionalized account of real people? How much does that apply to this movie? What is the responsibility of those participating? And more shallow, WTF is up with Billy Evans? There are some amazing twists and turns that are great fodder for simple discussion of “can you believe that??” As I said in the other thread, I’ve never seen a movie with so many audible gasps from the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/959 "2026-10-22T15:53:44Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I’m not a Nathan Fielder fan, and I think Holmes is a horrible human. I didn’t have much opinion of Billy Evans before the movie, but after it, I think he’s even worse than Holmes, if that’s possible. A New York Times [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2026/10/17/movies/billy-evans-elizabeth-holmes-nathan-fielder.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KlE.QHLy.AAGf4HiMCYZI&smid=url-share) on Billy Evans says > His family founded Evans Hotels, a San Diego-based chain that operates three luxury properties in Southern California. The chain’s website describes its business as “family-owned” since 1953, but the company made clear in a statement issued Oct. 1 that Billy Evans is not involved in the business in any way, as an employee or shareholder. I wonder what it says about him that he’s not at all involved in the family business. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/960 "2026-10-22T15:55:24Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Glad you enjoyed it. What would be the focus of your discussion? For me personally, I’d start with discussing specific choices Fielder made along the way and what other people think about their merit or his motive. I’d want to discuss what the directors might be trying to say with this film - because there are a lot of possibilities. I’d then want to talk about things Holmes said and did and which, if any of them, can be taken at face value. We truly don’t know, but I’m curious how other viewers approached her in this film. For example, the guy who broke the NYTs story recently published a brief review where he said “this film expertly dissected all of her lies,” yet I walked away feeling something a bit different, so this is a film where I think people are going to have all kinds of opinions about what it revealed. And I want to hear those opinions. Then there’s Evans, and oh boy is there a lot to unpack there. And I have to see the movie a second time because I’m sure there are things I missed. > [@TroutMan](#): > > We saw it with two other couples last night, and we all walked out and stood there with our mouths wide open until one of my friends said, “we have GOT to discuss that movie.” My husband said, “I wanted it to keep going” but then on my way out I heard two people complaining that it wasn’t all that funny. Talk about missing the point. (It has a few genuine laughs, but no, this is not cringe comedy, if you want that, look elsewhere.) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/961 "2026-10-22T16:01:50Z")
If anyone hasn’t found it yet, there’s a more spoiler-filled discussion of the movie over here. If you think you might see the movie at some point, I highly recommend skipping that thread until you see the movie. It’s quite a ride if you go in blind. > [@You Can See Everything \[Nathan Fielder film\] {Warning: Open Spoilers}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-see-everything-nathan-fielder-film-warning-open-spoilers/1033877): > > Incredible. If you enjoyed The Rehearsal, you will love it. If you don’t know anything about Nathan Fielder or The Dropout it may be worth reading a bit on both before seeing it. It won’t spoil anything. The whole movie is a ride. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/962 "2026-10-22T16:15:39Z")
Thanks, super helpful. Not my cup of tea. Glad you enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/963 "2026-10-22T16:18:43Z")
Oh, and gender politics. The film is brimming with questions about how differently we tend to perceive men and women. I’m slowly making my way through this thread and have seen it already discussed here - the extent to which Holmes’ gender and attractiveness influenced her ability to con so many men, alongside her claim that she committed her crimes under duress, in an abusive relationship. I haven’t learned enough yet to know whether those claims were substantiated in any way. But the film explores these issues in a novel way and if the film is manipulative it’s here - but intentionally so. It’s so, so easy as a viewer to shove Holmes and Evans into these archetypal gender roles - until it’s not. That’s the trick. What your mind is willing to entertain while you watch it. Is it Holmes? Is it Fielder? Is it my own assumptions? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/964 "2026-10-22T16:22:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > My husband said, “I wanted it to keep going” but then on my way out I heard two people complaining that it wasn’t all that funny. Talk about missing the point. That sounds like someone who doesn’t know what “documentary” means, or expects them all to be like _The Office_. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/965 "2026-10-22T16:27:13Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That sounds like someone who doesn’t know what “documentary” means, or expects them all to be like _The Office_. It’s also a strange complaint because the film _is_ very funny. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/966 "2026-10-22T17:32:09Z")
Getting back to the scam itself… > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I never read the John Carreyrou book but read a lot of others when the fraud was first reported. A Stanford professor named Phyllis Gardner pointed out that it’s simply not possible to do most of the blood tests on a single drop, as you would get from a finger prick. I think she said as much to Holmes even before Holmes dropped out of Stanford. > > Plus there are established companies that make blood testing machines. Surely if it were possible to do those tests on a small machine, they would make one. Imagine not having to send out your blood samples from a blood draw center but instead being able to get immediate results Yeah, i watched the HBO (Netflix?) documentary with friends. I don’t especially prefer a finger stick to a needle in my arm if they are done by professionals, but being able to get the sample _without_ a professional phlebotomist is huge, and being able to test immediately and locally is also huge, as every diabetic who routinely tests their own blood can attest. We all agreed that if this thing was real, we would want it. And I’ve handled enough blood samples to know that this machine couldn’t possibly work as described. > [@hajario](#): > > . It’s outrageous that they wouldn’t let the clients in the lab. Like the biggest red flag imaginable. I’m astonished it got the funding and publicity it did. That’s the question I’d like to examine. Is it just because she’s physically attractive and lies really well? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/967 "2026-10-22T17:53:11Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, i watched the HBO (Netflix?) documentary with friends. I’m about halfway through that HBO documentary now and the part where they show what’s inside the box and all the cross-contamination and exposed needles makes me shudder. I haven’t gotten to it yet - was there documented harm to actual specific patients involved in this scam? I believe she was acquitted of the patient charges, is that because they couldn’t prove she knew about the fake blood tests? Or because they couldn’t prove anyone was harmed? I’m really sad that one employee/expert died by suicide. It’s obvious some people saw through the bullshit and a lot of them paid too high a price. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Is it just because she’s physically attractive and lies really well? It’s evident to me that this was a factor at least. Also based on the HBO documentary, she intentionally surrounded herself with people who had no basis to evaluate the claims being made, and marginalized those that did. I’m reminded of Warren Buffet’s take on crypto. They asked him why he’d never invested in it. He said, “Because I don’t understand it. I don’t invest in things I don’t understand.” Sage advice. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/968 "2026-10-22T18:01:27Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Also based on the HBO documentary, she intentionally surrounded herself with people who had no basis to evaluate the claims being made, and marginalized those that did. Also, she was clearly courting the Silicon Valley set, and a lot of those folks were the type to invest in software companies that sometimes never released a working product or released buggy product that later needed patching and knew that they only really needed to hit on 1 out of perhaps 10 such companies to end up ahead. That worked at the time in that sector but not so much for medical testing, which has higher regulatory standards. “Fake it until you make it” is an actual slogan in that crowd, and she bought into that to a great expect. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/969 "2026-10-22T18:42:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m astonished it got the funding and publicity it did. That’s the question I’d like to examine. Is it just because she’s physically attractive and lies really well? They were high on hopium and FOMO. And Sunny, the other part of the pair was a narcissist and a bully. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/970 "2026-10-22T20:15:39Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > was there documented harm to actual specific patients involved in this scam? There were actual patients who got “results” from this set up that were… Random numbers? Can you prove that one bad blood test caused harm? That seems hard. The financial harm to whoever paid for those tests is more straightforward. I was never clear on why those charges didn’t stick, though. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/971 "2026-10-22T21:00:15Z")
See when I mentioned the new documentary to my father in law (before I saw it) he said she should have been charged with murder. So I thought a patient must have died as a result of all this. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/972 "2026-10-22T22:50:06Z")
If so, I’m not aware of it. Although honestly, if they processed a lot of “tests”, the odds aren’t that bad. She’s certainly guilty of gross disregard for the health of others. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/973 "2026-10-22T22:54:37Z")
I think that people may have been told that they were cancer free when they weren’t. This delayed treatment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138.md?page=47)