# The trial of Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos)\[sentenced to 11+ yrs, 18Nov2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2021, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138 "2021-07-10T04:42:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/141 "2021-10-26T13:48:04Z")
Jurors heard directly from Elizabeth Holmes for the first time yesterday, not in trial testimony but in a 2013 recording made by a potential investor. > **[Dallas company’s recording of Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes emerges as...](https://www.dallasnews.com/business/health-care/2021/10/24/dallas-companys-recording-of-theranos-founder-elizabeth-holmes-emerges-as-prosecution-jackpot/?outputType=amp)** > > The jury in the Theranos trial finally got to hear from Elizabeth Holmes herself — not in person but a recording of her talking up her blood-testing startup... ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/142 "2021-10-26T16:48:53Z")
From that article (thanks, **Bullitt** ): “…jurors heard the young entrepreneur in her own voice…” To which I respond: which one? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/143 "2021-10-27T07:10:38Z")
😂 😂 ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/144 "2021-10-28T18:24:22Z")
How did it get to the point they were testing on patients? Medical device R&D & manufacturing are some of the most highly regulated companies out there and the FDA would have shut it all down in the first hour of the first audit ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/145 "2021-10-28T18:57:45Z")
Well, that’s part of the issue. Theranos was giving _demonstrations_ with the magic box, but despite what they were saying publicly, they weren’t _actually_ performing tests with it. All of the _actual_ (non-demonstration) tests were being carried out back at their lab, using the same equipment everyone else in the industry uses.\* They were perpetually “a few months away” from final FDA approval, or they just kind of glossed over the whole bit where the magic box didn’t actually have FDA approval and they were actually performing all the tests the same way everyone else does, with couriers and a core lab. \*And, as discussed upthread, to me by far the worst part of the whole scam is that they weren’t even performing those tests correctly. They weren’t collecting enough blood, and they were running too many tests on too-small samples, and getting garbage results. Unfortunately, it’s not that hard to put on a show for CLIAA and CAP inspectors and do that day’s tests correctly, and then go right back to all your old bad habits the other 364 days of the year. CLIAA and CAP inspections are actually pretty effective at catching incompetence and corner cutting and poor practices. But they’re not much if any use in catching deliberate fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/146 "2021-10-28T19:08:26Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > How did it get to the point they were testing on patients? Medical device R&D & manufacturing are some of the most highly regulated companies out there and the FDA would have shut it all down in the first hour of the first audit I can’t remember exactly what it’s called, but Theranos received some sort of waiver from full FDA testing under a program meant to encourage small businessese ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/147 "2021-11-23T15:07:37Z")
She took the stand: > **[Elizabeth Holmes makes her case to the jury in fraud trial](https://apnews.com/article/technology-entertainment-business-health-san-jose-36d5f466874070c37fe990ab4ba57255)** > > SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) — Elizabeth Holmes, the one-time medical entrepreneur now charged with building a fraudulent company based on promises of a revolutionary technology, returned to the witness stand Monday. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/148 "2021-11-23T15:10:09Z")
Did she talk in the affected low pitch voice? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/149 "2021-11-23T15:12:04Z")
That’s for investors and underlings. It doesn’t harmonize with the current victim narrative. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/150 "2021-11-23T15:21:08Z")
A friend of a friend is a transwoman. I’ll call her “Sue”. She has been frustrated by how women are ignored. One time, on a large conference call, she made a suggestion that she thought would really help the situation and the conversation continued as if she hasn’t said anything. She was so frustrated that she interrupted in her “male” voice and said, “i think Sue had a good suggestion”. And suddenly, three other men agreed, and her suggestion was rapidly adopted and the conversation moved forward. My guess is that the lower, less feminine, voice was very effective. Because sexism. And there’s a lot I hold against Holmes, but her low voice is not on the list. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/151 "2021-11-23T16:17:05Z")
NY Times is covering the trial in pretty good detail. Here are some quotes from their coverage yesterday: > In just [under two hours of testimony](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/11/22/technology/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-trial), Ms. Holmes pushed back against accusations that she had lied about Theranos’s work with drug companies. She also pointed the blame at the scientists and doctors who had worked at her start-up, saying she believed what they had told her about Theranos’s technology. > > And throughout it all, Ms. Holmes’s defense bolstered the idea it has been pushing since the start of the trial: She may have made mistakes, but failure is not a crime. > For her lawyers, the idea on Monday was to show the kernel of truth that may have existed in some of the most blatant misrepresentations that prosecutors attributed to her. > Ms. Holmes also tried to shift the blame, noting that she learned about Theranos’s technology from the scientists and doctors who worked in the company’s lab. She testified that she believed them when they said the technology worked. The implication: Ms. Holmes could not have intended to deceive investors if she believed the technology was real. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/152 "2021-11-23T17:39:06Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > My guess is that the lower, less feminine, voice was very effective. Because sexism. And there’s a lot I hold against Holmes, but her low voice is not on the list. I don’t dispute any of that. I was just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/153 "2021-11-24T17:28:22Z")
If she took a crash course in ventriloquism, she could say in court in her deep voice, once she’s left the stand, “I believe Ms. Holmes is completely innocent and should be acquitted without delay.” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/154 "2021-11-29T21:08:23Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9Z0VMI67a4Y/hqdefault.jpg "Pee Wee's Big Adventure I say we let him go") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z0VMI67a4Y) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/155 "2021-11-30T15:09:45Z")
The latest: > **[Elizabeth Holmes testifies she was abused by former Theranos COO | CNN Business](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/tech/elizabeth-holmes-testimony/index.html)** > > Elizabeth Holmes, flushed and holding back tears, testified Monday that she left Stanford to launch Theranos in part because she had been raped, and said she later entered into what she alleged was an abusive relationship with the person who would... ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/156 "2021-12-01T03:30:20Z")
From the AP: > **[Elizabeth Holmes gets emotional under fire by prosecutors](https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-health-elizabeth-holmes-65c9af2438f4baaa470a37d456c833fa)** > > SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) — One-time entrepreneur Elizabeth Holmes, under questioning by prosecutors, struggled Tuesday to recall key events that led to her facing criminal fraud charges for allegedly fleecing investors and customers of her failed... ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/157 "2021-12-01T18:03:38Z")
I think essentially ignoring the abuse testimony during cross examination by the prosecutor was the right approach. There’s nothing to be gained by trying to argue against it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/158 "2021-12-01T18:15:49Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > My guess is that the lower, less feminine, voice was very effective. Because sexism. And there’s a lot I hold against Holmes, but her low voice is not on the list. The point for me is that it doesn’t sound like a real person. It’s not like she’s just speaking in her lower register more often. Nor does she sound like a man. She just sounds like someone doing a voice. And I continue to argue it goes into showing that she was playing a phony character. It’s not 100% indicative of such, but it’s a red flag when you hear someone talk with an affected voice who tries to sell you something. If it was just the normal advice to speak in a lower tone, then you’d hear other powerful women who sound like her. But you don’t. I don’t think that’s what it is. My best guess is that, by adopting a goofy voice, it makes any other discomfort feel like it must be because of her voice. Or perhaps it weeded out those who would not be easy marks. Either way, I think it’s more than just her speaking low to sound more authoritative. It’s part of the con. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/159 "2021-12-01T19:04:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Either way, I think it’s more than just her speaking low to sound more authoritative. It’s part of the con. I agree. Is she using the voice during trial testimony. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138/160 "2021-12-01T19:21:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If it was just the normal advice to speak in a lower tone, then you’d hear other powerful women who sound like her. But you don’t. In point of fact, Margaret Thatcher was famously advised to use a lower tone of voice in the 1970s, which she did, and then lead her Conservative Party to victory in 1979. Just do some casual Googling - you’ll find scads of articles about or advising women to use lower tones of voice in business and politics. (I’m also a bit curious how you know that any “other powerful women” _don’t_ affect lower tones in their public speaking voices - how many have you heard in private, in a situation where they wouldn’t feel the need to affect a lower tone?). Since we have some recordings of both Elizabeth Holmes’ natural voice and her affected public speaking voice, we know there’s a pretty big difference. And, given how low her public speaking voice is, the difference is almost certainly more extreme than most public women affect. But to me, it’s just a question of degree, and _someone_ is going to be the one that affects the most extreme distortion of their natural speaking voice. I don’t think there’s anything the least bit deceptive about it (unless you think styled hair and makeup and careful selection of wardrobe are deceptive). And I personally don’t hear any of the unnaturalness that others seem to hear in her public speaking voice. It’s unusually deep for a woman, but beyond that, at worst, I hear someone affecting a deeper, more authoritative tone, not something weird. I continue to be puzzled by this fixation on Elizabeth Holmes’ public speaking voice. As I’ve mentioned before in this thread, for both women _and_ men, affecting a lower tone in public speaking is literally Public Speaking 101. As I’ve also mentioned, I myself almost unconsciously affect a lower tone when I engage in public speaking, and I’m a man, with a fairly low pitch to begin with. For a woman trying to pitch to (mostly male) investors and market her company to (mostly male) business executives and impress (mostly male) journalists, her affected voice doesn’t seem the least bit odd or “phony” to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trial-of-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-sentenced-to-11-yrs-18nov2022/946138.md?page=9)