# The trouble with The Trouble With Tribbles - open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408 "2012-06-07T17:43:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/61 "2012-06-08T21:14:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Actually, the fact that the Klingons wouldn’t have been too upset about this makes me feel a lot better about what Scotty did. Especially since Scotty seemed to think they would have trouble with them, meaning he didn’t think of the inhumane implications. > > And, if I remember correctly, Tribbles are extinct by the 24th century–the Klingons actually destroyed their planet. until they were reintroduced by the deep space 9 crew. sparking a second “great tribble hunt”! opera to be announced later. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/62 "2012-06-08T21:49:02Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > until they were reintroduced by the deep space 9 crew. sparking a second “great tribble hunt”! opera to be announced later. In the Star Trek MMO: Tribble of Borg. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/63 "2012-06-08T22:13:45Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > In the Star Trek MMO: Tribble of Borg. Unit 1978567402 of 7819234965378929. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/64 "2012-06-08T23:25:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > No Romulan Ale for you! > [@Leaffan](#): > > It’ssssss… green. [Romulan Ale](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan_ale) is blue. The green stuff was unidentified in its original appearance, and later (tentatively) identified as [Aldebaran Whiskey](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Aldebaran_whiskey). (It’s interesting that the green stuff is so commonly misidentified as Romulan Ale, though, I will certainly say that…) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/65 "2012-06-08T23:59:39Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > (It’s interesting that the green stuff is so commonly misidentified as Romulan Ale, though, I will certainly say that…) It depends upon what you’ve been drinking. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/66 "2012-06-09T20:18:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > They’re just lucky they didn’t pick up a few of their more “frisky”(read: Vicious) cousins, the Dire or Vorpal Tribbles. Just like their cuter counterparts but with big sharp teeth and a taste for humanoid flesh. That sounds more like a Langolier. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/67 "2012-06-19T02:47:48Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > If I recall correctly, there was an episode of \*Enterprise \*where they attempted to ret-con the whole brow-ridge issue. It was kinda complicated (something to do with a virus?), but made sense to me at the time. > > > [@Tengu](#): > > > > The Augment virus… Sometime between the events of TOS and the movies, they figured out how to completely cure it, restoring proper Klingon appearances. Even to the point of smooth-headed young TOS Klingons like [Kor](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kor) and [Koloth](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Koloth) growing new ridges? It makes more sense to me to just assume that they, and all Klingons, _had ridges all along_, and that their on-screen appearance–to _our_ eyes, not Kirk’s, et al.–was an effects limitation, as of course it was. TOS _on screen_ had all kinds of visual incongruities with the other series deriving from the terms of its television production; it just seemed weird to canonize this particular detail into the Trekverse instead of leaving it in ours. (What happened to the Romulan foreheads then?) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/68 "2012-06-19T04:18:08Z")
It was either give the tribbles to the Klingons or beam them out into space. I mean, what else could Scotty do? (Which brings up an interesting question: In “Day of the Dove,” Chekov says to leave the Klingons _in the transporter_ rather than materialize them on the _Enterprise_, a state he calls “nonexistence.” How long can something remain in the transporter buffer before its molecular pattern is lost? Indefinitely? In that case, they could have waited until they found a suitable predator-rich planet on which to deposit the tribbles and let nature take its course.) Toward the end of the animated episode, McCoy actually produces genetically modified tribbles that aren’t breeding machines and can be kept as pets. Between the glommer and the GMing, there was really no need to destroy their homeworld (which was in any case predator-rich), but Klingons gotta have their fun… Apparently, their homeworld wasn’t in Federation space. Otherwise its destruction might have sparked the Great Tribble War! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/69 "2012-06-19T04:29:22Z")
With regard to the Klingons, it was obvious from discrepancies in the original TOS make-up that their homeworld (or Empire) contained different races (or species), some conquered and some not. Until they started thrashing the matter, I always just assumed that some Klingons naturally had brow ridges and some didn’t. There was no need to create retro histories. I even remember reading back in the '70s (when they were working on the aborted “Star Trek II” TV series) that Roddenberry, with his love for things Japanese, was planning to reveal that Klingons were not a separate race at all but rather a warrior caste within the Empire, similar to the Samurai on Earth. Not only would THAT have been more interesting, it would have made a lot more sense! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/70 "2012-06-19T04:35:32Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > It was either give the tribbles to the Klingons or beam them out into space. I mean, what else could Scotty do? > > (Which brings up an interesting question: In “Day of the Dove,” Chekov says to leave the Klingons _in the transporter_ rather than materialize them on the _Enterprise_, a state he calls “nonexistence.” \*\* How long can something remain in the transporter buffer before its molecular pattern is lost? \*\*Indefinitely? In that case, they could have waited until they found a suitable predator-rich planet on which to deposit the tribbles and let nature take its course.) ST:TNG episode [Relics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relics_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29) Scotty survives 75 years in the transporter buffer. It did require Scotty do a little modification of the transporter. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/71 "2012-06-19T04:40:52Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > ST:TNG episode [Relics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relics_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29) > Scotty survives 75 years in the transporter buffer. It did require Scotty do a little modification of the transporter. **Wow!** That’s pretty close to indefinitely! :eek: I think I’ve seen all of the first 101 episodes of TNG, but only a handful of the remainder. I keep trying to fill in the gaps, but I never live long enough in one market to manage it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/72 "2012-06-19T06:17:46Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > [Romulan Ale](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan_ale) is blue. The green stuff was unidentified in its original appearance, and later (tentatively) identified as [Aldebaran Whiskey](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Aldebaran_whiskey). > > (It’s interesting that the green stuff is so commonly misidentified as Romulan Ale, though, I will certainly say that…) I haven’t had the pleasure of trying Romulan ale, what with the embargo, you know, but I’ve heard that once you’ve tried a couple of bottles of it, _everything_ looks green. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/73 "2012-06-19T06:34:17Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > With regard to the Klingons, it was obvious from discrepancies in the original TOS make-up that their homeworld (or Empire) contained different races (or species), some conquered and some not. Until they started thrashing the matter, I always just assumed that some Klingons naturally had brow ridges and some didn’t. There was no need to create retro histories. In a long-ago retcon thread, I went into my own [theory](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7075503&postcount=3) of the differences at some length…okay, probably too much length. It’s based on the existence of distinct subspecies within the Klingon population. In my ever-so-humble opinion, it remains better than any “official” attempts to explain it, as it covers both morphological and sociological elements. > [@terentii](#): > > **Wow!** That’s pretty close to indefinitely! :eek: A long time, certainly, but it was a near thing at that point. They had some trouble getting him out of it, as I recall, and the other survivor who had taken refuge in the buffer didn’t make it. His pattern had deteriorated too much to be recovered. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/74 "2012-06-19T06:52:56Z")
I remember the episode of the animated series in which Robert T. April (the first captain of _Enterprise_-1701) and his wife used the transporter to restore Kirk and crew, who had been reduced to children somehow, to their proper age. They could have remained young themselves (they had been subjected to the same rejuvenating phenomenon) but decided not to because they had already lived “satisfying, full lives.” Apparently the transporter has some powerful capabilities (I also remember the geriatric Dr. Pulaski in TNG) that people in the 23rd–24th centuries are just too high-minded to take advantage of. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/75 "2012-06-19T08:32:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Even to the point of smooth-headed young TOS Klingons like [Kor](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kor) and [Koloth](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Koloth) growing new ridges? Well, yes. The augment virus affects a phenotypical change _in the infected persons_. Why do you think that the countervirus wouldn’t do the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/76 "2012-06-19T17:22:17Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Well, yes. The augment virus affects a phenotypical change _in the infected persons_. Why do you think that the countervirus wouldn’t do the same thing? Those Klingons were not themselves infected; they’re descendants. It was a heritable, genotypic change. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/77 "2012-06-19T17:43:01Z")
You’re rather severely missing the point. The Augment virus changed the infected on every level - genetics, psychology, and gross anatomy - bringing the infected closer to humans, then the change stayed. Some hundred and change years later, they develop a cure that does the exact same thing, but in reverse, resetting all 3 to the pre-viral Klingon baseline. Once you accept the first, you cannot reject the second. ---
**Author:** ![ajrjaneway](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ajrjaneway/32/8280_2.png) [@ajrjaneway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajrjaneway)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/78 "2013-09-11T21:27:12Z")
Yes, the end of “Trouble with Tribbles” bothers me too. I’ve seen it many times, but only lately have I realized that the fate of those poor tribbles is not bright. My family and I figure the next time we see those Klingons, they will be wearing coats made from tribbles. In the DS9 episode about the tribbles, Worf says that the Klingons hunted down every last tribble and eradicated them. Nice. And as I watch it over and over, I realize that I don’t really like this episode that much. In fact, I’m not impressed with David Gerrold, but I don’t find anyone else of the same opinion. All I find are glowing reports of how wonderful he is. Anyone else not so enamored of him? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/79 "2013-09-11T21:40:55Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Essential reading – David Gerrold’s own book **The Trouble with Tribbles** , about writing that episode, and more than everything associated witbh it. IIRC Gerrold himself mentioned parenthetically that he never thought for a moment the Klingons had any trouble doing whatever needed to be done to get rid of the Tribble horde. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408/80 "2013-09-11T21:48:07Z")
Tribbles don’t, it appears — or doesn’t appear — poop. No one is up to their armpits in tribble poop. Of course no other carbon units do, either. (But spaceships have tailpipes.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trouble-with-the-trouble-with-tribbles-open-spoilers/624408.md?page=5)