# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 126
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2514 "2020-08-18T20:09:26Z")
> **[Meet Scott Atlas, Trump’s new doctor on the coronavirus task force, a Fox...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/2020/08/16/meet-scott-atlas-trumps-new-doctor-on-the-coronavirus-task-force-a-fox-news-regular-who-happens-to-agree-with-the-president-on-the-pandemic/)** > > President Donald Trump has found a new doctor for his coronavirus task force — and this time there’s no daylight between them. Trump last week announced that Dr. Scott Atlas, a fre… > “I think he’s utterly unqualified to help lead a COVID response,” said Lawrence Gostin, a Georgetown University law professor who specializes in public health. “His medical degree isn’t even close to infectious diseases and public health and he has no experience in dealing with public health outbreaks.” > > “Its very clear to me,” Gostin added, “that the president brought on somebody who will just be a mouthpiece for his agenda and a ‘yes’ person.” Gostin expressed concern that Trump was sidelining other doctors, including Birx and Fauci, because he had soured on their advice. > > “In the face of an epidemic that’s killing hundreds of thousands of Americans, that’s unforgivable,” he said. “You want clear independent advice from people with long experience in fighting novel pandemics and he has none of those credentials.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2515 "2020-08-18T20:12:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’d suggest rereading my previous posts, including specifically #2495. Someone has modeled it, after all. Thank you for showing all that it is you that is not following, the paper you cite is about “Optimal Targeted Lockdowns” Something that I mentioned already that can be considered. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2516 "2020-08-18T20:14:28Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > And, then, go back and re-read what Atlas wrote. The world will look different when you’re not viewing everything through the vision that everyone who says anything outside the Orthodox is an lying shill for “the other side”. > > Trump is an idiot, regardless. Atlas, as best I can tell, is not. You’ve just failed to read honestly. Sorry. Sorry, but is you that is not convincing when a trying to consult a Radiologist like if he was an expert in epidemiology or economics. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2517 "2020-08-18T20:16:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sorry, but is you that is not convincing when a trying to consult a Radiologist like if he was an expert in epidemiology or economics. You’re stuttering, both in this and the previous post. That takes a certain effort to achieve in text form. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2518 "2020-08-18T20:17:45Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > And let’s say that we really don’t want teenagers to smoke, so we spend $1.5b every year trying to convince them to not smoke. > > The impact of this $1.5b is that we’ve helped to support the lifestyle of advertising executives, and kids start smoking at age 14, just as regularly - if not moreso - than if we’d never done a thing. Worth noting here that teenage smoking is currently at a fifty-year low. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2519 "2020-08-18T20:18:21Z")
Duly noted that you have no reply other than looking at the grammar of others. BTW I already have acknowledged many times before that I have issues as English is my second language. What is your excuse for being so naive? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2520 "2020-08-18T20:19:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Worth noting here that teenage smoking is currently at a fifty-year low. That’s an honest and reasonable response to the underlying concept of the argument. Thank you for reading and thinking about what you were reading. That should have been a glaring hole for anyone who actually went through. Advertising probably does help to some extent. Though, it’s also possible that smoking has simply been supplanted. I would generally argue that people understand the relative risks and will try to move to something else (e.g vaping) that gives them their ability to socialize, if it’s possibly safer, but they won’t abandon socializing just because it’s risky. You have to balance the two. If they have to smoke to socialize and there are no other options given, then they’ll smoke. Your best option is to spend on R&D to create safer drugs rather than to ban drugs or advertise against them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2521 "2020-08-18T20:33:47Z")
Atlas just shrugged… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2522 "2020-08-19T01:14:28Z")
Oh, and Trump now allowing Dr Atlas to advise him is, just a part of the ongoing cluster fuck indeed. > **[Keilar: Dr. Atlas wouldn't know science if it kicked him in the Atlas | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/08/13/brianna-keilar-fact-check-trump-new-coronavirus-adviser-scott-atlas-crn-vpx.cnn)** > > Months into the coronavirus pandemic, President Donald Trump announced Dr. Scott Atlas as a medical adviser for the White House coronavirus task force. CNN's Brianna Keilar breaks down Dr. Atlas's controversial stance on Covid-19. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2523 "2020-08-19T04:05:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > CNN’s Brianna Keilar > Keilar graduated from [Mission Viejo High School](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Viejo_High_School) in 1998, where she was voted homecoming queen in her senior year. Keilar then attended the [University of California, Berkeley](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California,_Berkeley) from which she graduated [Phi Beta Kappa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi_Beta_Kappa) in 2001 with dual [bachelor’s degrees](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor%27s_degrees) in Mass Communications and Psychology. > **[CNN - Bias and Credibility](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/)** > > LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation.  They may The people on the right always thought it was just good, healthy fun to enjoy a little bit of partisan nonsense every once in a while. Surely, they’d be smart enough to steer their way clear through to truth and reality, regardless of who they were listening to every day. In 2020, if you’re still watching TV news, then you’ve got a deeper problem than Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2524 "2020-08-19T04:25:11Z")
Any doctor advocating the return of U.S. college sports at this point, as Atlas does, is not advocating for what’s best for the country. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2525 "2020-08-19T04:42:03Z")
That fucker needs to go eat a bag of broken glass, and for good measure, crap the bloody pieces down Dr. Oz’ throat. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2526 "2020-08-19T05:50:29Z")
Atlas isn’t an infectious diseases doctor. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2527 "2020-08-19T09:02:49Z")
Ignoring denial of consent from women is very on-brand for him. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2528 "2020-08-19T09:56:38Z")
I was not sure in which thread to post the lousy liar’s latest nonsense, but it’s here because it’s about what he seems to think is a governmental action which is his to take, but, of course, is not. [Trump says he, not Israel, moved the capital of Israel to Jerusalem](https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-says-he-moved-us-embassy-to-jerusalem-for-the-evangelicals/): > “And we moved the capital of Israel to Jerusalem,” Trump said at a rally held at an airport in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, apparently referring to his decision to move the embassy from Tel Aviv. “That’s for the evangelicals.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2529 "2020-08-19T10:04:48Z")
> “And we moved the capital of Israel to Jerusalem,” Trump said at a rally held at an airport in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, apparently referring to his decision to move the embassy from Tel Aviv. **“That’s for the evangelicals.”** This is why I caution the Jewish Trumpists I know that Trump is not their friend: he didn’t move the embassy for the Jews, screw them, he did it for the people cheering for Armageddon. Except he didn’t, but he’ll happily take credit for it if he thinks it will benefit him. So screw the Jews AND the evangelicals. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2530 "2020-08-19T10:24:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Jewish Trumpists I’m still trying to parse this. Why on Earth would a Jewish person support that anti-semite? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2531 "2020-08-19T11:16:19Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In 2020, if you’re still watching TV news, then you’ve got a deeper problem than Donald Trump. Well, I see that you are so proud of the idiot ball award you got awhile ago that you are going also for the naive award of the year. As other posters noted, Trump is considered an idiot thanks to the **cumulative** fact that he consults people that have an agenda already and on top of that, usually not the proper experts of the matter at hand. And then one has to notice how pathetic is to use the shooting the messenger fallacy to make your point. You need to drop that “sage” part from your name. > **[enacademic.com](http://ww38.enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/787174)** > > This domain may be for sale! > **Shooting the messenger fallacy** > > ## Current application > > A modern version of attacking the messenger can be seen when persons [blame](https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/190668) the [media](https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/11883) for presenting bad news about a favored cause, person, organization, etc. The fact remains that ‘shooting the messenger may be a time-honored emotional response to unwelcome news, but it is not a very effective method of remaining well-informed’.[[9]](https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/787174#cite_note-8) > > Getting rid of the messenger may also be a tactical move; but the danger is that an ethos of non-disclosure may follow any hostile response to negative feedback. ‘People learn very quickly where this is the case, and will studiously avoid giving any negative feedback; thus the “Emperor” continues with the self-delusion… **obviously this is not a recipe for success** ’.[[10]](https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/787174#cite_note-9) [Barbara Ehrenreich](https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/130474) in _Bright-sided/Smile or Die_ argued that a culture of “thinking positive” so as to 'purge “negative people” from the ranks…[fed into] the _bubble-itis_ '[[11]](https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/787174#cite_note-10) of the late Noughties. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2532 "2020-08-19T11:49:58Z")
Related to that accumulation of the evidence for the Trump administrations cluster fuck, it has to be noticed that [Trump’s favorite hack economist Peter Navarro is still advising him](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/402621-john-oliver-slams-trump-for-not-understanding-how-trade-works) (The Hill newspaper there links also to the funny John Oliver’s explanation of where Peter Navarro is coming from, a very good short video to check too -skip to minute 13 for the Navarro bit-). Yep, the best people. and it is really very naive to ignore the fact that there is plenty of evidence already about what is the kind of people that Trump is getting into his administration. > **[‘Rogue’ Trump adviser Peter Navarro says he has no regrets for deriding Dr....](https://www.nydailynews.com/2020/07/27/rogue-trump-adviser-peter-navarro-says-he-has-no-regrets-for-deriding-dr-fauci-over-coronavirus/)** > > White House economic adviser Peter Navarro insisted Monday he has no regrets about “going rogue” on coronavirus with an unauthorized opinion piece slamming Dr. Anthony Fauci as being wr… > **[Trump's top trade adviser blasts 'tone-deaf' medical experts leading the US's...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-trade-adviser-navarro-economic-shutdown-worse-coronavirus-medical-experts-2020-4)** > > Peter Navarro said medical experts appeared "tone-deaf" to the "very significant losses of life" that could come from keeping the economy closed. > But public health experts say that reopening the economy too soon without a robust testing apparatus in place could be calamitous and prompt a new surge of coronavirus infections. > > Trump, though, is eager to roll back economic restrictions and restore a sense of normal life in the US. His advisers are seeking to start doing so in May. > > [In a Monday tweet](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1249712413219397632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1249712413219397632&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2020%2F04%2F13%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fcoronavirus-navarro-economic-shutdown.html), the president said a decision on reopening the economy “will be made shortly!” That was back in May, and the result was that the health experts were right. And so were the majority of economists that continue to report that Navarro is not advising the president properly. Not about trade and not about opening the economy in a pandemic either. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2533 "2020-08-19T11:51:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > Jewish Trumpists > > I’m still trying to parse this. Why on Earth would a Jewish person support that anti-semite? Yeah, I’ve been trying to figure that one out for the better part of four years… Of the Jewish Trumpists I know, there’s a subset that are wealthy folks that overlap with the category White (we also have Ethiopian descent Jews in the local community, and one of the local rabbis is from Argentina and Hispanic so around here the Jewish community has a definite spectrum of skin color) and thus support Trump for the reason many wealthier people support Trump - the notion that he’s some sort of business genius and they approve of government being run like a business. And yes, racism plays a part. I have no idea how these folks reconcile Trump’s White supremacist views, statements, and buddies with somehow being on the side of the Jews. There is also a subset that seem to think that because Trump’s son-in-law is Jewish and his daughter converted that Trump can’t be an anti-Semite. There is a high religious subset of Jewish Trumpists that, in addition to approving of the Jewish son-in-law and converted daughter, absolutely lap up stuff like moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and seem to think it is “proof” that Trump is pro-Israel and by extension pro-Jewish. (I’ll skip the whole issue that not all Jews are Zionists, not all Jews are pro-Israel, and the majority of American Jews often support the existence of Israel while disagreeing with what the government of Israel does or doesn’t do). Other than that, I got nuthin’ Certainly, the political views of Jews as a whole are as varied as that of the general population even if some of the proportions of this or that viewpoint are different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=125) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=127)