# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 127
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2534 "2020-08-19T11:56:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There is also a subset that seem to thing that because Trump’s son-in-law is Jewish and his daughter converted that Trump can’t be an anti-Semite. Those guys also ignore history, Nixon demonstrated how having a Jew in a high position of power in his administration and helping Israel did not stop Nixon from being an anti-semite. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2535 "2020-08-19T11:58:28Z")
A bigot liking select individuals of a group does not prevent the bigot from disliking that group as a whole. Bigots do have the capacity to make exceptions for individuals they personally know or have either a use for or some sort of grudging respect for as an “exception” to the category. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2536 "2020-08-19T12:37:40Z")
I suspect it is a hybrid of Stockholm plus abused-spouse syndromes. Starting to identify with the person who is holding you hostage combined with that part where one keeps trying to find the right formula for satisfying the abuser so that the beatings diminish. I mean, this Kumquat is a well-established conman, yet people still give him money. There seems to be a reluctance to learn from other people’s mistakes, or a belief that I can succeed where no one else ever has, in spite of a mountain of evidence that success is simply not an option. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2537 "2020-08-19T12:37:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > and thus support Trump for the reason many wealthier people support Trump - the notion that he’s some sort of business genius and they approve of government being run like a business. What do they not get that he runs businesses into bankruptcy and it’s the government that bails them out by granting bankruptcy? How is the government supposed to bail out the government? > [@Broomstick](#): > > There is also a subset that seem to think that because Trump’s son-in-law is Jewish and his daughter converted that Trump can’t be an anti-Semite. Right. And that pre-supposes that he accepts that his daughter _really_ converted and/or her husband is not “one of the good ones” in his view. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Certainly, the political views of Jews as a whole are as varied as that of the general population even if some of the proportions of this or that viewpoint are different. True. Judaism, just like any other religious group or ethnic group has a wide variety within it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2538 "2020-08-19T12:51:21Z")
I know a few. There’s the tax angle, as they think he’s better for their personal finances. And there’s some denial of reality - they claim he’s playing up to the bigots but isn’t personally a bigot. Add to that the brainwashing you get from getting too much news from Fox News, Breitbart, and the like, and it sort of makes sense. Pointing out that he’d be happy to toss them to the wolves to satisfy his larger bigoted base doesn’t work. They claim he’d never actually do that and is just playing to the crowd. I doubt anything short of being rounded up for the camps would do for them. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2539 "2020-08-19T12:57:22Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I doubt anything short of being rounded up for the camps would do for them. \< rationalizing \>“This is a fake camp that was built to trigger the libtards. I’m just doing my patriotic duty.” \ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2540 "2020-08-19T13:03:27Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What do they not get that he runs businesses into bankruptcy and it’s the government that bails them out by granting bankruptcy? How is the government supposed to bail out the government? 'Cause he’s smart! At the beginning of his term, he was floating the idea of giving investors in US debt a haircut. It’s what he does with his failing businesses. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2541 "2020-08-19T13:06:47Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Starting to identify with the person who is holding you hostage combined with that part where one keeps trying to find the right formula for satisfying the abuser so that the beatings diminish. They identify with him when he is hurting the _right_ people. They don’t care about the beatings they receive, so long as they perceive others as being hurt more. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2542 "2020-08-19T15:03:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > and thus support Trump for the reason many wealthier people support Trump - the notion that he’s some sort of business genius and they approve of government being run like a business. > > What do they not get that he runs businesses into bankruptcy and it’s the government that bails them out by granting bankruptcy? How is the government supposed to bail out the government? Since I try to avoid political discussion I can’t say I have special insight in this. The one business-man friend I’ve discussed this with at all excuses Trump’s bankruptcies as “real estate is like that” and “corruption in Democrat-run New York”. Now, that guy _actually has met_ Trump and worked for him as a contractor. _In that particular case_ the contractor was paid in full and on time, so, OK, I can understand that for _that particular person_ the interaction with Trump was positive. That person, however, can not seem to understand that his experiences may not be universal, or even typical. And the Jewish Trumpists I know do not have any personal experience of Trump, either positive or negative. So… yeah, I don’t get it. Likewise, there are people who taxes have gone down, or whose investments have done well during the Trump administration and they focus on that. _For them_ Trump has been (or appears to be) a good thing. I may not agree with their viewpoint, but I do understand the “I’m doing well so I like the status quo” position. I’m sure in pre-Revolution France there were many who benefited from the _ancien regime_ and supported it. They just didn’t understand that a crapton MORE people were NOT doing well or benefiting from that situation and indeed their lives were becoming steadily worse to the point they felt they had nothing left to lose so why not depose a king and overturn the status quo? > [@Monty](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > There is also a subset that seem to think that because Trump’s son-in-law is Jewish and his daughter converted that Trump can’t be an anti-Semite. > > Right. And that pre-supposes that he accepts that his daughter _really_ converted and/or her husband is not “one of the good ones” in his view. I don’t get the doubts about the sincerity of her conversion. Since 2009 when she officially converted to Modern Orthodox Judaism she has kept the Sabbath, observed a kosher diet, married in an Orthodox Jewish ceremony sent her children to Hebrew school,and otherwise has comported herself as a Jewish person. Under Jewish law she is as Jewish as any other Jew. I’m not sure why her father would doubt her conversion. Pretty sure they’re both Jewish Trumpists, and The Orange One regards Jared as a “good one” because anyone who backs Trump is a “good one” in Trump’s view. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Pointing out that he’d be happy to toss them to the wolves to satisfy his larger bigoted base doesn’t work. They claim he’d never actually do that and is just playing to the crowd. I doubt anything short of being rounded up for the camps would do for them. Yeah, that horrifies the rest of us. How those old enough to remember the Holocaust and WWII can support a would-be fascist dictator is beyond me. I can’t figure out black people who are pro-Trump or immigrants who are pro-Trump either, although I’ve met a few of each of those categories. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2543 "2020-08-19T15:16:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yeah, that horrifies the rest of us. How those old enough to remember the Holocaust and WWII can support a would-be fascist dictator is beyond me. Thing is, for one of them, her father was literally the only surviving Jewish person out of his village. A group of them left for better work opportunities and when things got bad, he had a bad feeling about going back and decided to stay in Budapest instead. Eventually made it to New York and had kids. Every other Jewish person in his village was rounded up and killed. We did a group vacation out to Hungary and saw the names of all those villagers carved into stone in the Jewish Quarter in Budapest. So, yeah, it’s a strange thing to see them claim the same would never happen to them under a guy who is literally penning children. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2544 "2020-08-19T16:03:40Z")
My thought was that nobody could take a grown adult with that haircut seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2545 "2020-08-19T16:19:18Z")
It may help that Trump’s anti-semitism is non-standard. He believes all the stereotypes of Jews being greedy and manipulative with dual loyalty to Israel, but unlike the standard anti-semites he believes that these are admirable qualities. Unlike his actions/ rhetoric towards Blacks and Hispanics, I don’t recall any actions of his that were actively discriminatory against Jews. His support of the white power movement might fit the bill, but I suspect that he considers that to me more of a movement against Blacks and Hispanics, since Jews look white. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2546 "2020-08-19T16:21:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The people on the right always thought it was just good, healthy fun to enjoy a little bit of partisan nonsense every once in a while. Surely, they’d be smart enough to steer their way clear through to truth and reality, regardless of who they were listening to every day. > > In 2020, if you’re still watching TV news, then you’ve got a deeper problem than Donald Trump. I have no reason to assume that the Media Bias/Fact Check site - run by one guy out of his home - is specifically biased either way but his methodology as presented appears to be a little…loose. Take with several grains of salt. Personally I find the [Ad Fontes media bias chart](https://www.adfontesmedia.com/static-mbc/) more consistent and comprehensible but of course no model for measuring a subjective metric will ever be perfect. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nixon demonstrated how having a Jew in a high position of power in his administration and helping Israel did not stop Nixon from being an anti-semite. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t get the doubts about the sincerity of her conversion. Since 2009 when she officially converted to Modern Orthodox Judaism she has kept the Sabbath, observed a kosher diet, married in an Orthodox Jewish ceremony sent her children to Hebrew school,and otherwise has comported herself as a Jewish person. Under Jewish law she is as Jewish as any other Jew. I’m not sure why her father would doubt her conversion. Pretty sure they’re both Jewish Trumpists, and The Orange One regards Jared as a “good one” because anyone who backs Trump is a “good one” in Trump’s view. The cynic in me says “Every slaughterhouse has its Judas goat” but I do realize that this is an unsubtle metaphor for a much more nuanced situation. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2547 "2020-08-19T17:02:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I can’t figure out black people who are pro-Trump or immigrants who are pro-Trump either, although I’ve met a few of each of those categories. Shortly after the 2016 election, there was an editorial in the Chicago Tribune with the title “I am a female Muslim immigrant, and I voted for Trump.” Her reasoning was that Clinton and the existing Washington power system was too close to the House of Saud, and that her election would only bring more of their abuses. Wonder how she thinks now… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2548 "2020-08-19T17:04:43Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Wonder how she thinks now… - She wasn’t thinking _then_… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2549 "2020-08-19T17:20:27Z")
This is such a clusterfuck that a [predominately black](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/212) [conservative newspaper which endorsed Trump in 2016](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/21567), believing that he could not possibly be as bad as people were claiming, have endorsed Biden this year. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2550 "2020-08-19T17:24:41Z")
Do you have a link to this endorsement? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2551 "2020-08-19T17:26:30Z")
Sorry, no links. It’s from their local radio station talking about that week’s issue. The owner/editor does have a Facebook account; he may have said something on there. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2552 "2020-08-19T17:38:04Z")
Nope, nothing specific about Biden there but the owner/editor did share this: [https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115803853\_10157677786618152\_3018790542821785040\_n.jpg?\_nc\_cat=106&\_nc\_sid=730e14&\_nc\_ohc=MbV0k4h-iNwAX9ryEu5&\_nc\_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=08d1a494096653997ef421cf400c1828&oe=5F62FF9C](https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115803853_10157677786618152_3018790542821785040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MbV0k4h-iNwAX9ryEu5&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=08d1a494096653997ef421cf400c1828&oe=5F62FF9C) And this: [https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117769846\_3253946197984751\_118177489414954317\_n.jpg?\_nc\_cat=100&\_nc\_sid=730e14&\_nc\_ohc=RbbX3pcaAfsAX\_eeYmf&\_nc\_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=96d010b5caae31e5d514a830054295ad&oe=5F62C5DC](https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117769846_3253946197984751_118177489414954317_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RbbX3pcaAfsAX_eeYmf&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=96d010b5caae31e5d514a830054295ad&oe=5F62C5DC) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2553 "2020-08-19T17:42:21Z")
Not to Godwinize the thread, but even with Russian tanks having free rein on the streets of Berlin, Hitler still had millions of supporters. Most of whom, presumably, weren’t in Berlin. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=126) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=128)