# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 144
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2877 "2020-08-28T20:34:06Z")
At the convention, former US Ambassador to Germany Richard Grennell said that Individual 1 “charmed” Angela Merkel. When asked about it, she looked bemused and declined to answer. > **[Angela Merkel prompted laughter with her confused reaction to the claim that...](https://www.businessinsider.com/angela-merkel-confused-after-being-asked-if-trump-charmed-her-2020-8)** > > Richard Grenell, the former US ambassador to Germany, made the suggestion during a speech at the RNC on Wednesday night. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2878 "2020-08-28T20:36:58Z")
And this is going to be the reality in many respects: It’s much easier to fuck things up than to put them back together again. We all saw how ridiculously delusional and impatient Americans were when they elected Obama in 2008, blamed him for not having magical powers and voted republicans into power in 2010, and nearly voted for Romney and Ryan in 2012 - probably would have if they’d just had the balls to say “Fuck Blacks and Illegals, America’s a White Man’s country” back then. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2879 "2020-08-28T21:15:18Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > > [@asahi](#): > > > > That’s too simplistic, and in fact, some people might actually be better off financially than they were 4 years ago. > > No doubt some people are. What about the millions of unemployed who also lost their health insurance (if they ever had any). What about the loss of faith in the government as an institution, What about COVID? There’s more to “better off” than a few extra dollars in the bank. See, that is a handy metric, but it is not the one we need to look at. Over thirty years ago, I read a short piece in Sci-Am about statistical election analysis, which a short-sighted person might interpret that way, but careful reading shows a slightly different angle. It is not about the economy or how well people are actually doing. Instead, it is about the perceived trajectory of the economy. The optimism/pessimism factor. If you are living high on the hog but you are anxious that this administration is going to cause your prosperity to collapse in the near term, you vote them out. And given that one of Kumquat’s largest bases is old farts, yet he plans on eliminating the payroll tax with no replacement (murder of Social Security), that should be a massive dose of redolent pessimism for them. It needs to be shoved in their faces until they cannot escape the stench. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2880 "2020-08-28T21:21:30Z")
Good summary. To add to that, people also disagree on the root cause of what ails us. It’s no secret that Trump’s America doesn’t speak in terms of stats and facts - that’s for pencil neck geeks. The only stats they care about or relate to are fantasy football shit and the stock market. I am beginning to think that the only thing that can shock some sense into America is a massive market meltdown for the ages, which probably won’t happen as Jerome Powell is going to keep feeding that pig with more cash. But 10-20 years down the road? It’s an open question as to whether or not we’ll have social security and medicare in an amount that means anything. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2881 "2020-08-28T21:27:18Z")
The economy is more than money and markets. The economy is the movement of goods and services. When we start seeing shortages of things that we have taken for granted, people will take notice. When we start seeing shortages of necessities like food, people will riot. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2882 "2020-08-28T21:40:29Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It is not about the economy or how well people are actually doing. Instead, it is about the perceived trajectory of the economy. The optimism/pessimism factor. And, speaking of that: U.S. consumer confidence fell in August, to the lowest point it’s been at in six years. It had bounced back up in May and June, but now it’s back down to about the point it was at in the first months of the pandemic. It’s not too surprising, given that unemployment is still over 10%, the government hasn’t been able to reach an agreement on continued economic support (such as enhanced unemployment payments), and large numbers of layoffs are happening. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-25/u-s-consumer-confidence-falls-to-lowest-level-in-six-years](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-25/u-s-consumer-confidence-falls-to-lowest-level-in-six-years) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2883 "2020-08-28T22:04:16Z")
> **[Facebook failed to shut down page of Kenosha militia group, despite warning |...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/tech/facebook-kenosha-milita/index.html)** > > Facebook failed to take action against a self-styled militia group that was using the social media platform to encourage armed citizens to take to the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Tuesday night — despite at least one Facebook user reporting the... This might not be Trump per se but consider the fact that we’ve typically relied on the American presidency as an institution that attempts to discourage internally divisive and destructive behavior. This president, on the other hand, seems to enjoy throwing gasoline on the fire, and he will absolutely do more of it as it becomes clear to him that he could lose at the ballot box. The difference between now and 2016 is that Trump and his supporters were mostly just political aspirants at that time, not part of a criminal cabal. That’s why I keep saying that we’re now in a low-grade civil war. It’s just a matter of how far the president can push these fuckers, and how much energy they have to keep pushing if the president leaves public view (fat chance, I know). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2884 "2020-08-28T22:15:06Z")
> **[Facebook takes down ‘call to arms’ event after two shot dead in Kenosha](https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/26/21402571/kenosha-guard-shooting-facebook-deplatforming-militia-violence)** > > A self-described militia group has been removed from the platform ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2885 "2020-08-28T22:17:06Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > further down in the comments one person stated that kyle’s mother drove him to wisc. > > what on earth!!?? Yep, that’s what I heard, too - why is that so hard to believe? > [@asahi](#): > > The reason there isn’t is because we’ve been conditioned to believe that this is how this president behaves. We just accept it on some level. Yes, I know some reporters are discussing how unprecedented this is, but you don’t see any real outrage, do you? Oh, **I’ve** got plenty of outrage, but the cold hard truth is that nobody in power gives a damn about me - or about a bajillion other people - and I ain’t no power to fix things. > [@asahi](#): > > No worse than having the supposedly nonpartisan Director of National Intelligence basically claim that Trump’s opponents are national security threats (in his own words). That pretty much took the fucking cake for me right there. Well, _yeah_ - Trump & Co are form the _l’état, c’est_ moi school of governance. If you aren’t wholeheartedly _for them_ you are a threat _to them._ > [@asahi](#): > > That’s too simplistic, and in fact, some people might actually be better off financially than they were 4 years ago. Oh, yeah - I’m better off that I was four years ago. Hell, I’m better off than I was in January. But I know I’m an exception to the general rule and I also know that if my neighbors keep sinking eventually I’ll get pulled down with them. Also - what Trump promotes and represents is not what **I** want from my country. My different viewpoint shouldn’t make me any less American but in Trump’s America it does. That’s all sorts of wrong. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > IF Biden wins, the Republicans will spend 100% of their effort obstructing and trying to damage the country as much as possible. This is what they do. They’re not even subtle about it. Whether Biden wins or not that’s what the Republicans will do - that’s what they’ve BEEN doing these past four years. They’ve been turning this country into something between fascism and feudalism. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > It does seem as though the current Republican plan, seeing as how they don’t think that they can win in November, is to leave the country in such a state of disrepair that it _cannot_ be fixed by the next election cycle, and then blame all the problems on the Democrats. Even if they win they’ll still blame the Democrats. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > When we start seeing shortages of things that we have taken for granted, people will take notice. If I recall, we started seeing that around March of this year. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > When we start seeing shortages of necessities like food, people will riot. Um… we _already_ have riots… I also suspect it won’t so much be a shortage of food as a shortage of the means to buy food. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2886 "2020-08-28T23:28:37Z")
The poison apple doesn’t fall far from the poison tree. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2887 "2020-08-29T01:27:39Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > And given that one of Kumquat’s largest bases is old farts, yet he plans on eliminating the payroll tax with no replacement (murder of Social Security), that should be a massive dose of redolent pessimism for them. It needs to be shoved in their faces until they cannot escape the stench. ^ This needs to be highlighted in campaign ads that play round the clock. All those receiving Social Security and thinking voting for Trump will be a great idea (because he’ll keep the coloreds in line, or whatever the hell their rationale is) need a big hit of reality. Namely, that once they’ve voted the corrupt clown into Presidency-for-Life, _they will be 100% expendable._ ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2888 "2020-08-29T04:12:36Z")
Not to mention: **PAYROLL TAXES ONLY HELP IF YOU HAVE A JOB!!!** The people who need help are those who have lost their paycheck because their job disappeared due to covid. This will do absolutely nothing for them. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2889 "2020-08-29T06:33:56Z")
I have always been extremely frustrated with the faulty marketing skills of the Democratic Party. I can make a good case that greatly expanded health care coverage, free or highly subsidized policies and an immigration policy friendly towards oppressed refugees that are willing to work hard and pay taxes will have a positive economic effect, especially in the long term. These policies are the first step towards building not a short term booming economy, but a healthy, stable and consistently productive economy that will be less likely to spiral into recession the next time disaster strikes. A healthy, well-educated workforce is a productive workforce and freeing Americans from onerous health insurance premiums would stimulate other sectors of the economy. We will build a strong economy not just for us but for our children, and by assuring healthcare and education for our children… Build a vision, dammit. Paint a picture of what MY life will be like under the Biden administration. Stop being scared to spin your policies as good for the economy. Frankly, the only vision I have of my life under the Biden administration is the vision of a life where I can turn on the news or open my computer without being constantly aggravated by that bombastic bully Trump. That’s plenty for me but I’m concerned that there are people we need that need more than that, and they need to step it up somehow. The Democrats are experts at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and I’m depressed that they’re at it again. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2890 "2020-08-29T13:05:13Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Build a vision, dammit. Paint a picture of what MY life will be like under the Biden administration. Stop being scared to spin your policies as good for the economy. I agree completely. Trump & Co. are capturing people’s **imaginations** (not in a good way, but vividly, for sure). They are painting a loud, scary picture in fluorescent colors. The Biden picture is pastels and watercolor, and it needs to be stronger, brighter, and show specifics. Biden doesn’t have to turn into a bully-- but we need to see and hear more of him and more of what he plans to do. And the message needs to emphasize that a Biden victory must come with both houses of Congress, or it’s all moot. Right now, the Dems are just reacting to trump, which has always been his game. > [@](#): > > The Democrats are experts at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and I’m depressed that they’re at it again. Sadly, I fear you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2891 "2020-08-29T13:41:20Z")
I’m afraid very little of any of this matters. As @BobLibDem said in another thread, as long as enough voters in the mathematically important states hate and fear the same people Trump hates and fears, he’ll win. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2892 "2020-08-29T14:38:57Z")
But if I understand it right, companies don’t have to pay them, either (tee hee hee). And besides, it’s another way to defund social programs (tee hee hee, hee hee hee). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2893 "2020-08-29T14:44:30Z")
I don’t think all of them are hateful, which is the sad part; they just fear. They fear a society in which people in their America aren’t running shit. I mean, these people know that Donald Trump is seriously fucked up in some way. They know that; they just rationalize it somehow. As I said in another thread, white America is addicted to race-based social hierarchy. We’re like junkies injecting ourselves with the opiate of jingoistic chauvinism. When America as we know it finally dies, China, Canada, and Europe will open up our apartment door and find “Lady Liberty” in a state of rigor mortis, frozen in the pose of a goose step and Nazi salute. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2894 "2020-08-29T15:26:55Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Not to mention: > > **PAYROLL TAXES ONLY HELP IF YOU HAVE A JOB!!!** > > The people who need help are those who have lost their paycheck because their job disappeared due to covid. This will do absolutely nothing for them. > **[Trump’s push to defer payroll taxes could lead to smaller paychecks for...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/08/28/trump-payroll-tax-irs/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-low_trumptax-840pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-banner-low_trumptax-840pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)** > > Millions of workers could see slightly smaller paychecks during the first few months of 2021, as the U.S. government seeks to collect the taxes it's owed under an order signed by President Trump earlier this month. > [@](#): > > Millions of workers could see smaller paychecks in the first few months of 2021 after the Treasury Department on Friday told employers they would be on the hook for the payroll taxes deferred under President Trump’s recent order. > > **The new guidance paints a sharply different picture from what White House officials have said for several weeks** in response to Trump’s directive, which set in motion a plan to defer payroll taxes starting in September through the end of the year. My bold. WHAT??? A “sharply different picture”?? Say it isn’t so! > [@](#): > > Trump has said he hopes to “terminate” the tax, which funds Social Security and Medicare, so workers see a boost to their weekly checks and aren’t required to pay it back later. But absolving Americans of these debts requires an act of Congress, something lawmakers from both parties have been reluctant to do. “Reluctant”? That should read “Never in a million-zillion years!” > [@](#): > > Absent that, the Treasury Department’s guidance instead paves the way for employers to recoup the taxes deferred under Trump’s order from their employees’ pay, though it’s **_unclear_ what would happen if workers left their jobs or the firm no longer had the ability to deduct money out of their wages.** Stop with the wimpy language, WaPo! If the workers are gone, there’s NO WAY to get the money back. > [@](#): > > The administration’s guidance perplexed tax experts, who said it could frustrate workers and add to the burden facing businesses, which may be deterred from implementing Trump’s order at all. Last week, automakers, restaurateurs, retailers and a torrent of top employers signaled that possibility, when they joined with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in calling the president’s plan “unworkable.” Their opposition means that many workers may see no change to their pay — and the economy **may see few of the gains** Trump has touted. My bold. No fucking joke. But results don’t matter to trump. It’s the promises, the pie in the sky, a case of jam tomorrow and never any jam today\* that matters. Like his Sooper-Dooper Health Care Plan that will put the ACA to shame-- in two weeks. \*Who recognizes where that came from? [https://smile.amazon.com/Money-Game-Adam-Smith-ebook/dp/B00VSLI6NI/ref=sr\_1\_2?dchild=1&keywords=adam+shith+the+money+game&qid=1598714734&sr=8-2](https://smile.amazon.com/Money-Game-Adam-Smith-ebook/dp/B00VSLI6NI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=adam+shith+the+money+game&qid=1598714734&sr=8-2) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2895 "2020-08-29T16:10:10Z")
Jam tomorrow, never any today? I think you meant Alice through the looking glass ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/2896 "2020-08-29T16:51:58Z")
As an employer, I’m also not sure what I am supposed to do with this. I have to pay matching payroll taxes, which I assume would also be deferred. That means that once the deferment is over, I now have a big tax bill to pay all at once. If this goes through, I plan on diverting the “savings” to an escrow account, so that I don’t get stuck with a bill I can’t cover. This means that there really is no “savings” for me to have, just increased paperwork and hassle. Employees could be in a worse spot. It’s pretty obvious what they are doing, boosting wages now, and then, after the election, it won’t matter to them if they win, and if the dems win, then they blame them for the “sudden” tax bills. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=143) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=145)