# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 157
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3138 "2020-09-03T23:38:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Truth beats lies for rational people who are capable of critical thinking and not motivated rationalization. > > We don’t have enough of those right now, I don’t think. If this was true, we wouldn’t be having all of these discussions about how Trump is going to steal the election. If he had widespread support, he’d be able to actually win the election legally. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3139 "2020-09-03T23:42:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In what sense? All the people that believed him before Covid killed thousands of people, still believe him after Covid has killed thousands of people. Seems like the lie is holding up pretty well. I’m not even sure where you’re going with this. Trump said Covid19 would just disappear. Are you saying that there are a lot of people who believe Covid19 disappeared? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3140 "2020-09-03T23:48:07Z")
Trump seems to have taken a page from the book of Chicago politics. – “Vote early and vote often.” DJT ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3141 "2020-09-03T23:59:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Trump said Covid19 would just disappear. Are you saying that there are a lot of people who believe Covid19 disappeared? Well, there are some who still believe it’s a hoax. Some who believe that the number of deaths directly attributable to COVID has been vastly inflated by Deep State libtards _just to make Donald look bad._ And yeah, I’m sure there are plenty who believe whatever this nothingberder is is just going to disappear. Your questions aren’t really inquiries, are they? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3142 "2020-09-04T00:11:43Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Your questions aren’t really inquiries, are they? No, my questions really are inquiries. Like I wrote, I wasn’t sure I understood the point Miller was going for so I asked him. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3143 "2020-09-04T00:30:15Z")
CNN interviewed six 2016 Trump voters. All women. Three of the six still adore Trump and the other three no longer support him. One lady who claimed to be a nurse said she believes that Trump has done a terrific job on Covid. I’ll never understand people who believe that. Boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3144 "2020-09-04T00:52:55Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, and I just got this email from my mother: > > > [@](#): > > > > looks like this whole thing has been blown out of logical proportion; like big surprise > > > > WITH versus OF covid. > > > > Those that died WITH versus those that died OF > > Truth beats lies for rational people who are capable of critical thinking and not motivated rationalization. > > We don’t have enough of those right now, I don’t think. Did we ever have enough? As the story goes, during a 1950s presidential election campaign, former Illinois Governor Adlai Stevenson had a pertinent response to a supporter’s compliment: > [@](#): > > **Supporter: Governor, you have the vote of every thinking person!** > **Stevenson: That’s not enough, madam; we need a majority.** The idea that if a person who has some medical problem dies of COVID19, they haven’t really died of COVID19, but of the other condition, is as logical as claiming that every person who was beheaded died of heart failure. Because, yes: what actually ends the life of the beheaded person is the fact that their heart stops beating. (Or that their brain activity stops, if you prefer.) But to ignore the head-chopped-off issue is _perverse_. As are those insisting that people with other conditions and COVID who die, did _not_ die because of COVID. Millions of people with diabetes, for example, are still alive at this moment, and may remain so for some time to come, if their systems are not subject to the multitude of strains imposed by the novel coronavirus (lungs unable to process oxygen, blood clots and resulting strokes, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3145 "2020-09-04T00:56:44Z")
This bit of QAnonsense is essentially the Guiteau defense – yes, the defendant _shot_ President Garfield, but it was the doctors who _killed_ him… ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3146 "2020-09-04T01:01:28Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Individual 1 refused to visit a US military cemetery in Europe because the service members who died there were “losers” and “suckers”. He doesn’t want wounded military members to appear in military parades. And he doesn’t understand why the United States joined World War II on the side of the Allies. > [Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’ - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/) Note that the context makes it clear that it’s not just service members who die that Trump considers to be “suckers” and “losers”—but _every service member_. Trump’s numerous lies (and those of compliant doctors) that he employed to avoid service in the Vietnam era, show what he genuinely and sincerely thinks of those who join the military. He sees them as fools: “losers” and “suckers.” Every serving member. Every veteran. He tolerates generals and admirals because his authoritarian instincts incline him to like hierarchy and those who are at the top of hierarchies. But fundamentally, he doesn’t respect even the generals and admirals. To Trump, they, too, are “suckers” and “losers.” What kind of net worth do they ever rack up, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3147 "2020-09-04T01:04:02Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > This bit of QAnonsense is essentially the Guiteau defense – yes, the defendant _shot_ President Garfield, but it was the doctors who _killed_ him… Heh. Interesting point! Of course the ‘covid isn’t killing very many people’ is all in the service of excusing their deity Trump. It’s not part of any intellectually consistent view of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3148 "2020-09-04T01:05:57Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > This whole kerfuffle started the systems quality control portion of my brain to start whirring. How do election systems prevent this? Do they match voter names from in-person logs, with returned mail-in ballots? That would mean that all mail-in ballots are provisional until election day…what about states that count ballots as soon as they arrive? Do they have a way of backing out those ballots if an in-person match occurs? I worked school/county elections in Iowa last year, so in addition to staying at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I have some background in this area. Iowa doesn’t count absentee ballots until the polls close, but if someone who has already _received_ an absentee ballot shows up at the polls, when we look them up on the system it will tell us that. We ask if they want to return their absentee ballot - they can surrender it as “spoiled” and then we let them vote, or they can actually give us the completed absentee and it’s included with the precinct’s other votes. If they don’t have it, or if they mailed it in already, we tell them they can’t vote. If they insist, they can cast a provisional ballot, but I believe once the mailed ballot is tabulated the provisional is discarded. I heard a North Carolina election official on MSNBC today, They actually count absentees before Election Day, so there’s literally no way a voter can show up at the polls and “change” their vote. Like us, they can only vote provisionally, and that provisional ballot will be tossed out as soon as the system shows the voter sent in a mailed ballot. Trump’s “super secret scheme” to “test” the voting system is inane and pointless. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3149 "2020-09-04T01:10:23Z")
I’m really starting to wonder if Trump supporters are brain damaged. Is it possible? Some heretofore unknown toxin lurking in an item that’s more popular in certain demographic areas, like Twinkies or Coors Light? There can’t be this many just plain ol’ defective Americans. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3150 "2020-09-04T01:21:56Z")
Perhaps we can measure them for lead exposure. Would definitely explain the widespread Boomer support for the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3151 "2020-09-04T01:46:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree. Truth generally beats lies. Because truth has a big advantage; reality is on its side. But that only works in the relatively rare cases where the reality of the Truth hits the recipient first hand. If the lie is Obama was born in Kenya unless the listener was there ar the birth reality doesn’t enter into it. Meanwhile the lie has a lot of advantages not available to the truth. Its usually a lot more interesting and compelling, and it can be tailored the fit the preconceived notions and desires of the listener. With lies you can choose your own reality. > [@running\_coach](#): > > How the _fuck_ does he have any support from a single member of the military? Because Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem. For a certain type of ~~patriotic~~ nationalistic American the symbology or America is a lot more important than American itself, and Republicans are much better at wrapping themselves in the flag and ignoring it flaws. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3152 "2020-09-04T01:58:28Z")
But it _will_ slow down voting and increase the lines. That is the point. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3153 "2020-09-04T02:42:21Z")
No, I’m saying that the body of people who believed Trump when he said Covid would disappear are now a body of people who believe Trump when he says he never claimed Covid would disappear. Truth never triumphs here. When reality invalidates a lie, it’s seamlessly replaced by a new lie. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3154 "2020-09-04T03:01:08Z")
Does anyone know if there’s a correlation between Trump counties and opioid prescriptions? Cause I could see how if you’re tanked up on Oxy dressing like a red white and blue asshole and hitting the Trump rally might seem like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3155 "2020-09-04T03:13:33Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > One lady who claimed to be a nurse said she believes that Trump has done a terrific job on Covid. I know a nurse who used to think the same thing. This was back in June in Houston before things got really bad. She claimed it couldn’t be that bad because hospitals were laying off staff - and why would they do that if COVID was a problem? The answer, which I didn’t have the heart to tell her, is that with fewer elective, i.e. high profit margin, procedures, hospital finances were straitened and people being let go. And then things got bad, with ‘normal’ ICU capacity exceeded in the city. Not that it changed her mind on Trump but she did shut up about how COVID wasn’t so serious. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3156 "2020-09-04T03:15:06Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But that only works in the relatively rare cases where the reality of the Truth hits the recipient first hand. But that’s the kind of case we’re talking about here. The reality of the Covid crisis was not subtle in revealing itself. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/3157 "2020-09-04T05:26:46Z")
[![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gz-C54N9-v53xncdSMMZTvGkV3T5FYbtJFmO4yqoEaufpR4_r7KVGKZgOjzbeljSLLiy9khiHvaBzKFtt1CkUkiUr6wnnn3Lq0PK1hbmiSEDDrIaZpgt3rxKjk7fhxyjwum_6GVbLQ=w600-h315-p-k "New item by John Thornton") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/fGvwnndVkdnoo4Jc8) > **[High Opioid-Use Counties Voted Trump in 2016](https://www.medpagetoday.com/washington-watch/electioncoverage/73642)** > > Opioids are symptom, symbol of 'larger social and economic problems' [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=156) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=158)