# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 263
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5258 "2020-10-21T13:22:14Z")
May We Live In Boring Times ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5259 "2020-10-21T13:48:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Who can believe that the Russians are behind that oh-so-amateur laptop story? They are the pros. We know they can do better than that. Reminds me of a line in _SPYS_, an inept attempt by Gould and Sutherland to recreate the magic in MASH. They’re a couple CIA agents and are marked for death after botching a defection. A car bomb meant for them blows up the neighborhood instead, leaving them unharmed. “That was a sloppy bomb. The Chinese are quiet, right? The Russians are quick, and we’re sloppy.” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5260 "2020-10-21T13:53:23Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > A lot of people who cling to the traditional notions of tolerating free discourse are not confronting the realities of the modern age, in which disinformation can spread and essentially **outperform factual information.** If we don’t take this into consideration, we lose. It’s always been that way. People complained about gossips spreading lies, about minstrels spreading lies, about printing presses spreading lies, about the yellow journalism and the tabloids, etc. There was a slight hiccup in that pattern with government controlling from the start media using the broadcast spectrum. It gave us respite, but at the cost of giving us a false sense of security. We’re reverting to the historical norm in terms of quality of information. You’re right that we need media (and I include social platforms on the internet in that category) to do a better job. But the people need to do a better job discriminating the quality of information as well. The old solutions to this problem were oligarchy and censorship. Those in power controlled the flow of information to the masses. Even if the masses did get information that was unhelpful, they didn’t have enough power to act on it. There’s a reason our founders disdained direct democracy and universal voting, even if we don’t like their choices. We’ve unravelled the old system by giving more power to the masses and more control of information to them as well. And we’re reaping what we’ve sown, both disorder and propaganda. The new solution, if we can earn it, is to have more unfettered speech and more power to the masses. We’re currently in an unstable zone where too many people do not have a voice in either the government or the media. And the oligarchs have too much. That means more responsibility falls on the media and the masses, or the oligarchs will find a way to preserve their control over both power and media. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5261 "2020-10-21T13:53:40Z")
It’s no coincidence that fascism flourished during a time in which mass communication technology made considerable leaps forward. And it was utilized and mastered by fringe movements, just as they are now. These fringe movements are highly motivated to grow and metastisize, and new media platforms give them that capability. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5262 "2020-10-21T14:00:09Z")
I think what you’re saying is that we need to be better educated. I agree. Democracy will always be challenged in this way. Even in your stablest democracies, there is a percentage of people - probably as high as 30% or greater in some cases - who have no use for democracy, and this cuts across all demographics, I would say. When shit hits the fan, I’d say that number goes much higher. Democracy is hard. It’s sloppy and inefficient. We have high hopes that the person we elect will validate our decision. When they don’t, we not only don’t feel validated, we subconsciously begin to question the wisdom of the process altogether even if we never express our concerns in those terms. People can simultaneously show contempt and disregard for democracy while still believing in principle that we reserve the right to self govern when we want, as we want. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. Once you sub-let democracy to those who are not that democratically-minded, they tend not to let you back in. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5263 "2020-10-21T14:00:19Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > But the people need to do a better job discriminating the quality of information as well. Well THAT’S not gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5264 "2020-10-21T14:10:23Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > News – the Post Office has suspended the Postal Service Police for the next two weeks – just before the election. > > I never heard of this branch before. Evidently they oversee the security of the mail, making sure it’s not tampered with. Exactly the kind of thing you’d want with so much voting by mail. I don’t imagine this will be used to allow tampering to go unnoticed although it might. A more likely scenario is that they’ll use this self-imposed lack of oversight to point at vote by mail and say “See how insecure it is? There isn’t anyone preventing the tampering of ballots!” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5265 "2020-10-21T14:14:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think what you’re saying is that we need to be better educated. I agree. Yes, that is a component, that’s necessary but not sufficient. People need to be able to use their education, in particular to have their voices heard in the media, to have their voices heard in the government, but also in all aspects of contributing to and benefitting from society. (In case it’s not clear, I agree with your comments.) > [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > But the people need to do a better job discriminating the quality of information as well. > > Well THAT’S not gonna happen. Whoever controls the media will control the government and vice versa. If it’s not the people, then it’ll be an oligarchy. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5266 "2020-10-21T14:34:09Z")
Perfectly stated, Pleonast. The fact is, someone will control the machine - either it’s us collectively and the media works for the common good, or it will be owned by the few, and for the few. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5267 "2020-10-21T14:56:59Z")
Cheato accidentally tells the truth: > **['Nobody Wants Me': Trump Accidentally Stumbles Into The Truth During...](https://www.politicususa.com/2020/10/20/nobody-wants-me-trump-accidentally-stumbles-into-the-truth-during-pennsylvania-rally.html)** > > For a brief moment in time, Trump appeared to do something that's almost unheard of at his MAGA rallies: Tell the truth. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5268 "2020-10-21T15:10:52Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > It’s always been that way. Indeed, the famous quip that goes something like a lie will be halfway around the world before the truth can even get its knickers on seems to originate (attested) with Jonathan Swift, albeit worded quite differently. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5269 "2020-10-21T15:13:49Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Cheato accidentally tells the truth: > > [https://www.politicususa.com/2020/10/20/nobody-wants-me-trump-accidentally-stumbles-into-the-truth-during-pennsylvania-rally.html](https://www.politicususa.com/2020/10/20/nobody-wants-me-trump-accidentally-stumbles-into-the-truth-during-pennsylvania-rally.html) Everybody screws up once in a while. This is a mistake he won’t repeat. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5270 "2020-10-21T15:26:55Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Cheato accidentally tells the truth: > > [https://www.politicususa.com/2020/10/20/nobody-wants-me-trump-accidentally-stumbles-into-the-truth-during-pennsylvania-rally.html](https://www.politicususa.com/2020/10/20/nobody-wants-me-trump-accidentally-stumbles-into-the-truth-during-pennsylvania-rally.html) It’s the equivalent of a manipulative, insecure significant other saying “you don’t really love me” to solicit an affirmation of the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5271 "2020-10-21T15:54:02Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Perfectly stated, Pleonast. The fact is, someone will control the machine - either it’s us collectively and the media works for the common good, or it will be owned by the few, and for the few. Which makes me very circumspect about regulating the internet and other media. We need to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to express themselves, while at the same time discouraging disinformation. A difficult needle to thread. (By the way, I love how nuanced discussions can break out in pit threads. Have we no standards? 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5272 "2020-10-21T16:10:17Z")
> [@Donald Trump](#): > > Nobody wants me. Nobody. "The President then said that he was headed out to the Rose Garden to eat worms. " ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5273 "2020-10-21T16:19:36Z")
I see lots of Biden signs around, including a Bye Don one. yesterday, I saw one that said Everybody Sucks 2020 ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5274 "2020-10-21T16:29:39Z")
This is a thread about the administration’s fuckups. Not a “random signs I’ve seen” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5275 "2020-10-21T16:38:11Z")
Why would he be rueful over China and Iran not liking him? Was he disappointed he didn’t win over more dictators? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5276 "2020-10-21T16:41:42Z")
Uh, guys? Spoiler alert for the new Borat film, I guess. Don’t yell at me… [![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4NRZCwrGY5864WkTQzjFqiphZwRLo_6PML0GMdP_cM16AD0TToO5VbIjacst-EHAEGyxkZBX7ZmRM7tfcPCMLzxJNedbzNUjg8f-Up_YbZuLIuGKfpBuhRhhAoZVsAt_G38f_7KqzA=w600-h315-p-k "New item by John Thornton") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/UznR79Kfo9AS47Lx8) > **[Rudy Giuliani faces questions after compromising scene in new Borat film](https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/21/rudy-giuliani-faces-questions-after-compromising-scene-in-new-borat-film)** > > Trump’s personal attorney has indiscreet encounter with actor playing Borat’s daughter in hotel room during pandemic ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/5277 "2020-10-21T17:01:51Z")
> [@](#): > > **Trump Says ‘Not Much’ He Would Change In Hypothetical COVID Do-Over** > > President Donald Trump on Tuesday said there’s “not much” he would change if he had a shot at a do-over on the coronavirus pandemic that has now killed roughly 221,000 people in the United States. > > Sinclair’s Eric Bolling asked the President during a town hall scheduled to air Wednesday night if there anything the President “could have done differently” if he had another chance to tackle the coronavirus pandemic from the beginning. > > “If you had a mulligan or a do-over on one aspect of the way you handled it, what would it be?” Bolling asked. > > “Not much,” Trump said. “Look, it’s all over the world. You have a lot of great leaders, a lot of smart people — it’s all over the world. It came out of China. China should’ve stopped it.” > > When pressed on the matter he doubled down, again saying, there was “not much” he would change amid a pandemic that is far from contained in the United States. The nation’s seven-day average of new daily cases had exceeded 58,300 as of Monday — a case average not seen since the first week of August, according to CNN. > > “I did it very early,” Trump said in an apparent reference to a travel ban that he put on China that he repeatedly has suggested saved millions of lives. [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-says-not-much-he-would-do-differently-in-hypothetical-covid-do-over](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-says-not-much-he-would-do-differently-in-hypothetical-covid-do-over) In a sane world, an admission like this would have sunk any chances of re-election he had. It’s a measure of his mindset that he thinks that the 220,000+ US deaths are the best anyone could have done, and he’ll defend his actions to the end. It’s not just that he can’t accept making a mistake – it’s that he still thinks that what he did was the best thing to do.Despite the evidence of the rest of the world, and of science (none of which he accepts). And that alone ought to show that, even in the absence of malice or the motive of self-profit, his judgment is appallingly and unacceptably abysmal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=262) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=264)