# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 338
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6760 "2020-11-21T21:31:40Z")
> [@WaPo (via ThelmaLou)](#): > > The Saturday rally, scheduled for 10 a.m. to 3 p.m., would bring a crowd of the president’s most ardent supporters to Washington two days before electors from each state and the District meet and vote for their designated candidates. Someone, please, either fight or reinforce my iggorance here. I’ve understood that the electors don’t actually travel to DC to cast their votes. They gather in their own respective states and vote there, and the votes are transmitted to someone in DC. Is that right? (How did they do things in the Olden Days, like before the telegraph and convenient air or rail travel? Did they actually all travel to DC in those days? Did they send in their votes by Pony Express?) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6761 "2020-11-21T21:38:37Z")
Good news, everyone! > **[Judge rules against Trump global media chief after firings](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-media-michael-pack-9ca230e0602376144a73786bb9f6cc69)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — A federal judge has ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6762 "2020-11-21T21:40:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Judge rules against Trump global media chief after firings- This is VERY good news! > [@elucidator](#): > > After the shit we’ve been through, lucky we can still tie our shoes. I do not own any shoes that tie. But I still do use a shoehorn, and I haven’t forgotten how. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6763 "2020-11-21T21:55:03Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Someone, please, either fight or reinforce my iggorance here. I’ve understood that the electors don’t actually travel to DC to cast their votes. They gather in their own respective states and vote there, and the votes are transmitted to someone in DC. Is that right? > > (How did they do things in the Olden Days, like before the telegraph and convenient air or rail travel? Did they actually all travel to DC in those days? Did they send in their votes by Pony Express?) No, the electors have never met in DC. [Article II, s. 2, clause 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_3:_Electors) originally provided: > [@](#): > > The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. After the fiasco of the election of 1800, when Jefferson and Burr both got the same number of electoral votes, the [12th Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) changed the process, but kept the provisions about the location of the vote: > [@](#): > > The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; > > The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; My understanding is that the reason for the votes in the state capitals was a recognition of the difficulties of travel, but also to ensure that the electors did not come under pressure from the federal government, if, for instance, they were summoned by the sitting President, to come to the federal capital, to “discuss” how they should cast their votes…not that that would ever happen, of course. The President would always respect the electoral process and not try to pressure state officials to interfere in the electoral process… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6764 "2020-11-21T22:04:14Z")
Since the beginning of this pandemic, I’ve occasionally joked about stocking up on or taking Forsythia. 😃 For those who don’t recognize it, this is a reference to the 2011 movie _Contagion_, part of which features an internet conspiracy nut/huckster who fakes getting ill and taking forsythia extract curing him, leading to skyrocketing sales which earns him a fortune in kickbacks from the makers. And now real life sorta catches up to fiction, again, during the Gaslighting Era, [courtesy of Dr. Ben Carson](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-health-ben-carson-coronavirus-pandemic-0de7a6146af55ffbb43bd85d3a7039b2): > [@](#): > > In a statement posted on Facebook, Carson said he was “extremely sick” but saw “dramatic improvement” after taking a botanical treatment derived from the oleander plant. Carson said he has underlying conditions, which he did not specify, “and after a brief period when I only experienced minor discomfort, the symptoms accelerated and I became desperately ill.” Forsythia, Oleandrin… whatever you can shill, right Ben? As long as you get paid, who cares what else happens, amirite? > **[Dangerous Oleander Extract Not a COVID-19 Cure](https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/88126)** > > 'That would definitely end up killing people' ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6766 "2020-11-21T22:52:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > …And now real life sorta catches up to fiction, again, during the Gaslighting Era, [courtesy of Dr. Ben Carson](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-health-ben-carson-coronavirus-pandemic-0de7a6146af55ffbb43bd85d3a7039b2): > > > [@](#): > > > > In a statement posted on Facebook, Carson said he was “extremely sick” but saw “dramatic improvement” after taking a botanical treatment derived from the oleander plant. Carson said he has underlying conditions, which he did not specify, “and after a brief period when I only experienced minor discomfort, the symptoms accelerated and I became desperately ill.” > > Forsythia, Oleandrin… whatever you can shill, right Ben? As long as you get paid, who cares what else happens, amirite? > [https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/88126](https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/88126) That’s funny. I’ve been reading that Carson survived due to the monoclonal antibody treatment that Trump received. > [@](#): > > “President Trump was following my condition and cleared me for the monoclonal antibody therapy that he had previously received, which I am convinced saved my life,” Carson wrote. He said he is now “out of the woods.” > > In October, Trump credited his recovery to [antibody treatments](https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-archive-rush-limbaugh-114caeea4f1e83ed25fc312a27ff9137) from [Regeneron Pharmaceuticals](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-regeneron/regeneron-says-roche-successfully-tested-manufacture-of-covid-19-drug-used-on-trump-idUSKBN27X2T5). > > …In his post, Carson said he hoped that “we can stop playing politics with medicine.” Right, we wouldn’t want politicians to be involved with who gets (or doesn’t get) life-saving treatments not available to the general public… 🙄 > **[Ben Carson Says He Was 'Desperately Ill' With The Coronavirus](https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/11/20/937170338/ben-carson-says-he-was-desperately-ill-with-the-coronavirus)** > > The secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development says in a Facebook post that he credits monoclonal antibody treatments with helping him recover from COVID-19. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6767 "2020-11-21T22:52:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And now real life sorta catches up to fiction, again, during the Gaslighting Era, [courtesy of Dr. Ben Carson](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-health-ben-carson-coronavirus-pandemic-0de7a6146af55ffbb43bd85d3a7039b2): Yet more proof you don’t actually have to be a genius to be a successful brain surgeon… If only Ben had stuck with neurosurgery and not played with politics he’d still be respectable. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6768 "2020-11-21T22:54:24Z")
> **[Trump Supporters in Georgia Threaten to Destroy GOP, Boycott Runoff Electio](https://www.newsweek.com/georgia-trump-supporters-destroy-gop-boycott-senate-runoffs-1549245)** > > Videos show protesters upset about the election results, urging that Republican officials are not re-elected for "not explicitly helping Trump to 'stop the steal.'" Groovy. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6769 "2020-11-21T23:12:36Z")
Oh, I can _tie_ my shoes. It’s _un_tying them that’s the problem. Wait, you mean it’s not the Untied States of America? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6770 "2020-11-21T23:12:42Z")
I think you were ninja’d about 5 hours ago (#6740) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6771 "2020-11-21T23:23:57Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > …also to ensure that the electors did not come under pressure from the federal government, if, for instance, they were summoned by the sitting President, to come to the federal capital, to “discuss” how they should cast their votes…not that that would ever happen, of course. Nooooo… NEVER happen… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6772 "2020-11-22T00:24:30Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Michigan legislators who met with Individual 1 yesterday spent the night at the Individual 1 hotel, drinking Dom Perignon till the bar closed down. Seen all over Twitter–this comparison: > ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6773 "2020-11-22T00:28:37Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > > [@Sherrerd](#): > > > > Moscow Mitch will try to keep Donny-Boy from blowing up the Georgia Senate run-offs, > > … > > snip > > … > > Mitch _needs_ those Georgia wins. If he loses the Majority Leader position, his life is basically over. > > > > So Mitch still needs to keep Donny-boy happy. > > Are the Pubs going to dump Donnie after the Georgia run-offs? What do they need him for after that? His 73 million voters. But they’ll be testing, testing, testing, to find out if those voters are still loyal to Trump; if they seem to be turning their attention elsewhere, Republicans will drop Donny decisively and gladly. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6774 "2020-11-22T00:39:10Z")
> **[The 3 Norms Trump Could Still Break](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/how-trump-could-wreak-havoc-before-inauguration-day/617167/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%2BTheAtlantic%2B%28The%2BAtlantic%2B-%2BMaster%2BFeed%29)** > > He can’t and won’t overturn the election result, but he can cause plenty more havoc on his way out. It ain’t over til the Fat Frog ~~croaks~~ leaves office and flees the country. > America has seen little of Donald Trump since the election. Speaking to the nation largely through Twitter, he’s barely strayed outside the White House as he absorbs a defeat that shattered the myth he created of his own invincibility. Still, he’s been busy—firing officials he deems disloyal and plotting ways to stay in power. He can’t and won’t overturn the election result, but he can cause plenty more havoc on his way out. Some of the ways would be immediately evident; others, hidden. > … > > **Trump could try to pardon himself (and his compatriots).** > > No president has ever done it, but Trump could be the first to try. He’s even explicitly [claimed](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1003616210922147841) in the past that he has the “absolute right” to pardon himself. A pardon could insulate him in the event that prosecutors charge him with any federal crimes down the road. (It [wouldn’t protect him](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/nyregion/trump-taxes.html) from an ongoing Manhattan investigation into his business practices, or any other city- or state-level probes that may arise.) > … > > **Trump could try to ditch important records.** > > There are plenty of records stored at the White House that Trump may not want his successor, Congress, or the public to ever see: Emails involving his impeachment. Memos about officials he’s fired. Transcripts of conversations with Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un. > > Before he leaves, he could ask that records be destroyed or hidden so that the incoming Biden administration won’t know where to find them, some lawmakers and good-government groups worry. Trump has already refused to grant Biden the intelligence briefings that a president-elect normally receives during the transition period. > … > > **Trump could spout state secrets.** > > Either out of spite or general carelessness, Trump could blurt out secrets unearthed by a U.S. intelligence community he’s long disparaged. He has the power to do it; presidents can declassify anything they choose. In Trump’s case, though, he may be driven more by a need to vindicate himself in his final days in power than to advance the country’s interests. An obsession of his is his [unfounded claim](https://www.statesman.com/news/20200824/fact-check-did-obama-spy-on-trumprsquos-campaign-get-caught) that the Obama administration spied on his 2016 campaign. One example of information he could selectively release is anything that purportedly shores up that allegation. > … > > One reason to be hopeful that Trump won’t reveal much is that **he may not know as much as past predecessors did.** The president who [once told](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/30/trump-national-security-1136433) his intelligence chiefs to “go back to school” doesn’t seem to have been that great a student. > > When intelligence officials would brief him, he’d listen for a few minutes—and then start talking, said another former White House official, who also spoke with me on condition of anonymity to talk freely. “He doesn’t have a lot in his head, just because he doesn’t listen and pay attention and read the memos,” this person told me. “The only thing that would catch his attention was anything and everything that had to do with Putin and compromising the [2016] election.” Snippets from a very long article. My bold. Donnie’s disdain for book learnin’ and the fact that he has the attention span of a goldfish could wind up saving the country. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6775 "2020-11-22T02:05:02Z")
This is amusing Room Rater Twitter thread on the background in Don Jr’s cabin. Someone noticed that there was a teddy bear impaled on one of his wild game trophies. > ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6776 "2020-11-22T02:24:39Z")
It looks like a teddy bear is dangling from the head on the right. It’s flat and looks like a wall decoration. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6777 "2020-11-22T02:26:36Z")
[Nope. Of course this has nothing to do with “1, Individual” stacking the Supreme Court](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-considers-targeting-birthright-citizenship-111032956.html): > - President Trump is reportedly considering putting out an executive order in his final weeks in office to target birthright citizenship, according to two sources who spoke to The Hill. > - Ending birthright citizenship — which guarantees citizenship to anyone born on US soil, regardless of the citizenship of their parents — has been something Trump’s talked about doing since his 2016 campaign. And, of course, it has nothing to do with the VP -elect; > - Vice President-elect Kamala Harris is an example of someone who gained her citizenship this way. Her Indian mother and Jamaican father were not yet US citizens when they had her in California in 1964. Vindictive snit he is. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6778 "2020-11-22T02:33:08Z")
How much weight would an order have? I’ve just read that it has never been confirmed by the Supreme Court nor passed by Federal law. So if he signs that order, is Kamala no longer a citizen until the courts affirm it, or does she remain a citizen until the courts say she is not? And what would the likely outcome be if it goes to the Supreme Court? They would be overturning 50 years of, not precedent in the courts, but just general practice, right? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6779 "2020-11-22T02:47:06Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > They would be overturning 50 years of, not precedent in the courts, but just general practice, right? No, it would be overturning a decision of the Supreme Court from 1898, that is, a precedent over a century old: > **[United States v. Wong Kim Ark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark)** > > United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court which held that "a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China", automatically became a U.S. citizen at birth. Wong... Just another example of the amazing constitutional powers of President Trump, being able to overrule the Supreme Court itself. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6780 "2020-11-22T02:48:08Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > They would be overturning 50 years of, not precedent in the courts, but just general practice, right? [122 years of precedent, actually.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark) EDIT: Ninja’d. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Just another example of the amazing constitutional powers of President Trump, being able to overrule the Supreme Court itself. He’ll have to refer to [Article 12](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-hell-protect-constitutions-article-xii/story?id=40422352) first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=337) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=339)