# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 343
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6861 "2020-11-24T00:09:08Z")
> [@SoToasty](#): > > The GSA has said the transition can begin. > > [CNN on the transition](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/transition-biden-gsa-begin/index.html) “She’s dead Jim.” From Emily, GSA administrator: “Please know that I came to my decision independently, based on the law and available facts,” Murphy wrote. “I was never directly or indirectly pressured by any Executive Branch official – including those who work at the White House or GSA – with regard to the substance or timing of my decision. To be clear, I did not receive any direction to delay my determination.” I have enough sick and annual leave to get me to the end of my term. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6862 "2020-11-24T00:19:58Z")
They may have honestly been waiting for enough states to certify. This came fairly quickly after Michigan did. The agency head simply had no way of knowing what “ascertain” meant, and came to her own conclusion. Notice how she said that she hoped Congress would pass some laws detailing the process by which the ascertainment takes place because she was clueless. (At least, I saw the letter posted on Facebook, I assume people have seen it or will see it). A clueless head of an agency under Trump, even if not entirely partisan, whodathunk? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6863 "2020-11-24T00:47:57Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > The agency head simply had no way of knowing what “ascertain” meant, and came to her own conclusion. [You use the word ‘ascertain’ too much.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lStcwT_RGrQ&ab_channel=MattJH) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6864 "2020-11-24T00:48:31Z")
I think Michigan’s certification pretty much makes it official. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6865 "2020-11-24T00:58:14Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > They may have honestly been waiting for enough states to certify. According to [Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results_certification_dates,_2020), as of today, 21 states have officially certified. Only 8 of those states voted for Biden. So, no, that wasn’t the reason. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6866 "2020-11-24T01:01:06Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > According to [Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results_certification_dates,_2020), as of today, 21 states have officially certified. Only 8 of those states voted for Biden. So, no, that wasn’t the reason. I think the issue was with the states that were close. A lot of them they didn’t have any lawsuits pending in, so the GSA wrote them in for Biden before they certified. For Michigan and Pennsylvania, where they did have lawsuits, they penciled in Biden upon certification. I can’t say for sure because I haven’t done the math, but that’s probably enough when combined with uncontested states. Sorry for not being thorough about researching my posts for the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6867 "2020-11-24T01:02:49Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > “She’s dead Jim.” > > From Emily, GSA administrator: “Please know that I came to my decision independently, based on the law and available facts,” Murphy wrote. “I was never directly or indirectly pressured by any Executive Branch official – including those who work at the White House or GSA – with regard to the substance or timing of my decision. To be clear, I did not receive any direction to delay my determination.” Of course, Loser Donald couldn’t stop himself from waiting more than five minutes before trying to take credit for it on Twitter; > I want to thank Emily Murphy at GSA for her steadfast dedication and loyalty to our Country. She has been harassed, threatened, and abused – and I do not want to see this happen to her, her family, or employees of GSA. Our case STRONGLY continues, we will keep up the good fight, and I believe we will prevail! Nevertheless, in the best interest of our Country, I am recommending that Emily and her team do what needs to be done with regard to initial protocols, and have told my team to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6868 "2020-11-24T01:05:08Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > They may have honestly been waiting for enough states to certify. This came fairly quickly after Michigan did. **The agency head simply had no way of knowing what “ascertain” meant, and came to her own conclusion. Notice how she said that she hoped Congress would pass some laws detailing the process by which the ascertainment takes place because she was clueless.** … (My bolding.) There are dozens if not hundreds of aspects of our election process and our expectations for Presidents that are clearly and urgently in need of codification. I don’t give Emily Murphy a pass on this, because even in the absence of explicit and detailed rules, she had centuries of precedent to guide her—precedent which she utterly ignored. So, no on excusing Murphy. But, also, yeah: let’s put in place some US Code that will prevent such shenanigans in future. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6869 "2020-11-24T01:06:56Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Notice how she said that she hoped Congress would pass some laws detailing the process by which the ascertainment takes place because she was clueless It’s so unfortunate that she was the first one to have to do this ascertainment ever and had no precedent to rely on. Really would have saved us some trouble. ETA: Ninjaed. Well, I’m leaving it… ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6870 "2020-11-24T01:18:42Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I don’t give Emily Murphy a pass on this, because even in the absence of explicit and detailed rules, she had centuries of precedent to guide her—precedent which she utterly ignored. I don’t disagree in theory. But in reality when every single other losing candidate has conceded, the GSA has no formal guidance on how to determine who has won and every other time relied on a concession to start the process. The lack of concession I’m pretty sure is unprecedented. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6871 "2020-11-24T01:42:27Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > > [@Sherrerd](#): > > > > I don’t give Emily Murphy a pass on this, because even in the absence of explicit and detailed rules, she had centuries of precedent to guide her—precedent which she utterly ignored. > > I don’t disagree in theory. But in reality when every single other losing candidate has conceded, the GSA has no formal guidance on how to determine who has won and every other time relied on a concession to start the process. The lack of concession I’m pretty sure is unprecedented. . That’s fair–that a lack of concession is unprecedented in modern times. But for the last century, concessions have followed elections being “called” by credible corporations\*—something that happens weeks before actual certifications and the rest of the process—and that, in itself, is precedent. Precedent by which Murphy could have let herself be guided. The Constitution in no way makes “conceding” a part of the process, and therefore Murphy had no legitimate reason to rely on it. \*The owners of the Associated Press, television networks, etc. ---
**Author:** ![rboyce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rboyce/32/4066_2.png) [@rboyce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rboyce)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6872 "2020-11-24T01:46:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I don’t know. Even the stupidest follower of Dear Leader must realize that once he’s gone, they have no legal cover whatsoever. Dump is fully aware of that, knowing he will be in court trying vainly to stay out of jail to no avail . ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6873 "2020-11-24T01:55:53Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Precedent by which Murphy could have let herself be guided. This, exactly. The outcome of the election was known five days after the polls closed. She could have, and should have, done what was needed to be done. Instead, she did what every other lackey in the administration and party did…which was keep quiet and do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6874 "2020-11-24T01:58:56Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > “She’s dead Jim.” > > From Emily, GSA administrator: “Please know that I came to my decision independently, based on the law and available facts,” Murphy wrote. “I was never directly or indirectly pressured by any Executive Branch official – including those who work at the White House or GSA – with regard to the substance or timing of my decision. To be clear, I did not receive any direction to delay my determination.” I have enough sick and annual leave to get me to the end of my term. I wonder if a video will surface of her blinking T-O-R-T-U-R-E in Morse code … ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6875 "2020-11-24T02:07:24Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > According to [Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results_certification_dates,_2020), as of today, 21 states have officially certified. Only 8 of those states voted for Biden. So, no, that wasn’t the reason. Here’s a [map](https://www.270towin.com/news/2020/11/22/interactive-map-states-certifying-2020-presidential-election-results_1131.html) of states that have certified. Biden only has 54 electoral votes from certified states as of yet. ---
**Author:** ![rboyce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rboyce/32/4066_2.png) [@rboyce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rboyce)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6876 "2020-11-24T02:14:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Here’s a [map](https://www.270towin.com/news/2020/11/22/interactive-map-states-certifying-2020-presidential-election-results_1131.html) of states that have certified. Biden only has 54 electoral votes from certified states as of yet. At that moment in time how many did dump have? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6877 "2020-11-24T02:17:00Z")
How did we miss this? $45 has withdrawn us from the Open Skies Treaty, and has ordered that the planes and their equipment be destroyed, with no replacements on hand. We and other treaty participants depend on that treaty and those planes to monitor military activity around the world, and $45 is deliberately blinding us on the way out the door. > **[US formally withdraws from Open Skies Treaty that bolstered European security...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/politics/us-withdrawal-open-skies/index.html)** > > The US on Sunday formally exited the decades-old Open Skies Treaty, some six months after President Donald Trump first announced the decision, according to the State Department. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6878 "2020-11-24T02:47:06Z")
Yeah, I saw that too over the weekend. 🙄 Just like the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty that Trump withdrew us from last year, this is yet another treaty that Putin found to be tiresome to comply with, so he undoubtedly pressed upon his puppet Donnie in one of their weekly chats to have the U.S. withdraw from this treaty as well. It’s not like Trump has any clue about these matters…in the 2016 primary debates he didn’t even have a clue what the nuclear triad is, and it’s well-known that Trump is incapable of being briefed. There was no reason whatsoever for the U.S. to withdraw from either of these important treaties. We got nothing in return. All of the benefit was to Russia. Withdrawing from either of these treaties (much less both!) makes the U.S. less safe, and increases the chance of a nuclear conflict in the future. I guess killing at least a quarter million Americans in a pandemic wasn’t bad enough. Great job, Donnie. 😡 ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6879 "2020-11-24T02:48:11Z")
[https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/business/gm-auto-emission-standard-trump-lawsuit/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/business/gm-auto-emission-standard-trump-lawsuit/index.html) > [@Morgyn](#): > > How did we miss this? $45 has withdrawn us from the Open Skies Treaty, and has ordered that the planes and their equipment be destroyed, with no replacements on hand. Well crap. He really just hates everybody and everything I think. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/6880 "2020-11-24T02:54:30Z")
Which branch currently has custody/control of the equipment he ordered destroyed? Is it possible to slow-walk the process of scheduling the destruction so President Biden can countermand the order? One more thing on his plate. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=342) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=344)