# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 425
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8505 "2021-01-08T09:47:41Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > How can you issues any sort of pardon unless you also state what crime the pardon is being issued for? > > That would mean admitting crime or possible crime in the first place Near as I can tell, a president doesn’t have to state what crime it’s being issued for, and can shrug even harder by adding a quick ‘has committed or may have committed’: [“_I, Gerald R. Ford,_ President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.”](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-4311-granting-pardon-richard-nixon) ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8506 "2021-01-08T11:46:18Z")
In the words of Heather Cox “The resignation of the Cabinet officials means that they will not have to weigh in on removing Trump under the 25th Amendment.” Just in case anyone thinks DeVos and Chao resigned for moral reasons. ---
**Author:** ![scoots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@scoots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scoots)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8507 "2021-01-08T11:54:49Z")
Is it the case that he never seriously expected to overturn the election result and this whole thing has been about building up his popularity for the post-presidential period which, presumably, he will be able to monetize in some way? In other words, he always knew he would have to concede but he has been squeezing every last drop out of the few remaining days in any way he can think of. Basically, it’s all just a game. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8508 "2021-01-08T12:49:52Z")
I don’t think he thinks that far ahead. IMHO it’s always more a case of “let’s do this thing right now – and let’s keep going down that road as long as we’re getting results” with no map. Just one foot in front of the other. He has often bragged that he doesn’t plan. He shoots from the hip. He reacts in the moment. He has also said that that’s why he doesn’t believe in briefings on situations-- when the moment arrives, he’s going to do what his gut tells him _at that moment_, so why bother getting informed ahead of time? Just exactly the sort of person who should be president, right? 🤦🏽‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8509 "2021-01-08T13:02:52Z")
Huh, The Onion is reporting on _real_ news now? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8510 "2021-01-08T13:03:57Z")
Yes, but all the ones with a hint of decency are the ones who are resigning. And, as mentioned upthread, it specifically gets them off the hook of having to consider the 25th. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8511 "2021-01-08T13:09:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Huh, The Onion is reporting on _real_ news now? - Real news is playing leapfrog. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8512 "2021-01-08T15:16:52Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Pence is supposedly furious at Trump. Also posted in the “Capitol under siege” thread: > **[An 'angry' Pence navigates the fallout of his rupture with Trump over...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2021/01/08/pences-break-trump-comes-amid-25th-amendment-talk-capitol-riots/6582212002/)** > > Vice President Mike Pence has broken with President Donald Trump as calls increase for Pence to use the 25th Amendment to replace Trump. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8513 "2021-01-08T15:27:16Z")
On a lighter note: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wT5kafhG3Qw/maxresdefault.jpg "SEDITION! - A Randy Rainbow Parody") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT5kafhG3Qw) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8514 "2021-01-08T16:32:57Z")
Am I the only one who finds Randy Rainbow unsettling? I think it’s the crazy eyes he does. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8515 "2021-01-08T16:38:34Z")
I disagree, they are resigning not due to decency, its because they are trying to dissasociate themselves, or in the case of cabinet they see that being possible parties to 25th Amendment action is going to be really bad for their credibility with the core idiot vote in the future. There is not a shred of decency there among any of them - if there had then almost by definition, they would not be there at all to tender resignations - they would have gone well before now - decent people don’t hang around until the absolute last moment of an immoral criminal undertaking - almost like saying a mob boss has a shred of decency by going under witness protection instead of being brought before the courts by the FBI ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8516 "2021-01-08T16:46:09Z")
Getting that together in such a short time - thats impressive ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8517 "2021-01-08T17:01:53Z")
> [@scoots](#): > > Is it the case that he never seriously expected to overturn the election result and this whole thing has been about building up his popularity for the post-presidential period which, presumably, he will be able to monetize in some way? In addition to his impulsivity, I think Trump has a certain feral cunning that lets him set up circumstances he can later manipulate for outcomes he has in mind. The attack on the Capitol is such a one. He has relentlessly hammered away to create hard divisions among US citizens. He gins up the fever of hate and keeps the focus on employing violence to achieve his particular ends – whatever those may be. He takes every opportunity to “otherize” Democrats and anyone else who disagrees with him. It gives him choices. I think he could foresee that Pence might well cleave with him on the Electoral College certification. One of his leverages over Pence may have been the threat of this violence. Maybe he’d employ it, maybe he wouldn’t. But the threat was in place. It seems evident that additional internal planning occurred, holding back the National Guard, failing to erect fencing, etc. Again, that took foresight. Trump’s impulsive, malignant nature kicked in as soon as he understood Pence wasn’t going to go along with the plan. He pulled the trigger with no further consideration. It’s all about his self-aggrandizement, his popularity, his personal protection, raising money for himself. In this case, I believe there was also punishment for Pence. He only pursues goals he cares about, with no thought to consequences for others such as those who lost their lives. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8518 "2021-01-08T17:49:58Z")
Fair enough, and decency was the wrong word choice on my part. I’m not sure what the right word for those who have resigned is, but for those who are staying on, those are true believers and will not invoke the 25th, which was the point I was trying to get at. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8519 "2021-01-08T17:52:53Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think Trump has a certain feral cunning that lets him set up circumstances he can later manipulate for outcomes he has in mind. He’s a good con-man. The only thing he truly understands is greed and hatred, and he’s good at bringing out and manipulating others who share those traits. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8520 "2021-01-08T18:32:47Z")
> **[Lehigh University Revokes President Trump's Honorary Degree](https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/08/954883159/lehigh-university-revokes-president-trumps-honorary-degree)** > > Numerous petitions have sought to rescind the Lehigh honor for Trump. One earlier effort garnered nearly 80,000 signatures, saying the president falls short of the university's values. > Lehigh University has revoked an honorary degree that President Trump held for more than 30 years. The Pennsylvania school’s board of trustees held a special vote this week after Trump incited an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8521 "2021-01-08T18:38:26Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Trump has a certain feral cunning that lets him set up circumstances he can later manipulate However, when you have several hundred million eyes on your shells, you will end up with a few million who spot your move, and they tell everyone else what is going on, making a con game hard to pull off at the presidential level. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8522 "2021-01-08T18:47:14Z")
I think that this presupposes more forethought than Trump actually possesses. IMHO He’s just been doing what he’s always done, asserting whatever narrative that seems to put him in the best light at that particular moment in time without regard to its association with reality or its effect in the future. So since it Trump as winner is always a better narrative than Trump as loser he just kept pushing whatever version of the narrative included that as the outcome, discarding those whose time had expired for whatever next gave him the possibility (no matter how remote) of coming out on top. So starting with we will win in the ballot box, then moving on to we will win the courthouse, then we will win in the state legislature, then we will win in the electoral college, and finally we will win in congress. Whether these efforts will succeed or fail has no bearing on his actions. He’s just living in the moment and riding the horse where ever it will take him. Just like he has always done. When trying to figure out the motivations of Trump there is one mantra you need to keep repeating to yourself “There is no Plan”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8523 "2021-01-08T19:22:43Z")
One of the terrorists not coming home from the Capitol on Wednesday was waving a Gadsden Flag (Yellow, with the snake on it). > **[Georgia woman trampled to death in Capitol riot was obsessed with pro-Trump...](https://www.rawstory.com/rosanne-boyland-capitol/)** > > A woman who was reportedly trampled to death during a riot inside the U.S. Capitol was reportedly obsessed with the QAnon conspiracy theory, according to her friends and family. A photo shows that she carried a Gadsden "don't tread on me" flag at a... Fiction has to abide by a certain level of believability. Truth gets to do what it wants. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/8524 "2021-01-08T19:33:20Z")
Her family seems about as rational and compassionate as one could want. They are able to express sorrow without excusing her actions. Just shows how any family can have loved ones trapped in these rabbit holes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=424) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=426)