# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 455
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9106 "2021-01-20T05:43:41Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I can imagine that knowing what early voting totals were would greatly affect voter behavior, but damn if I can’t figure out how. Well, when Reagan won in a walk a couple of the networks declared for him before the west coast polls closed and way too many people figured, “Why bother?” and stayed home. It affected quite a few races in California from the US House on down to city representatives. I could see if the media breathlessly giving a running total up to election day it could either galvanize or take the wind out of either side. Maricopa county did it the right way: Votes received up to the Sunday before election day were verified and counted, but no totals were announced until after the polls closed on Tuesday. An instant after the polls did close those totals, about 60% of the final vote, were announced. The election day vote totals were announced in dribs and drabs throughout the evening as they were processed. Mail or drop-off votes received on Monday or Tuesday were not even looked at until Wednesday. Verifying and counting them lasted until Thursday night and only a couple announcements on their count were made each day. Votes not in the registrar’s hands by the close of the polls on Tuesday were discarded. The ballots were mailed out the first week of October. With all of the Post Office shenanigans I don’t know if that allowed enough time for overseas voters to get their ballots back. Procrastinators residing in the county could hand in their ballot – in the envelope – at any polling location or the registrar, or drop it in the mail on Monday and hope. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9107 "2021-01-20T05:43:50Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > “Daddy Always Loved Me Best,” by Ivanka Trump & Lindsey Graham The co-author. Hilarious. Well done sir. CNN is reporting the Steve Bannon will likely receive a pardon. Seeing how Bannon is being charged with “defrauding donors of more than a million dollars as part of a fundraising campaign purportedly aimed at supporting Trump’s border wall.” I am actually somewhat OK with this. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9108 "2021-01-20T06:00:45Z")
Whilst I read more than I post nowadays, it still strains my credulity that I’ve spent just on four of my sixty years reading and participating in this thread ALONE. The stuff I’ve read, the rolled eyes, the gasps of shock and horror, the cackling laughter…every day for the last four years, watching the Travesty of Trump unfold. At last it’s at an end, and what an ignominious finale it has been. Fuck off Trump, and take your fawning family and sleazy sycophants with you. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9109 "2021-01-20T06:12:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > It’s almost a wrap, folks. How about we guess the book titles to be published by people involved in this clusterfuck? > > “Fuck It, I’m Going to Hell Anyway: My Journey to the Top of the Geriatric Scheiße Porn Industry,” by Mike Pence > “Becoming,” by Melania Trump > “Daddy Always Loved Me Best,” by Ivanka Trump & Lindsey Graham > “Why Does Everyone Keep Calling Me ‘Beavis,’ My Name Is Eric!” by Eric Trump _Getting Your Lawsuit Rejected: The Law Student’s Guide to Filings that the Court will Deem Unacceptable_, by Rudy Giuliani _Taking a Matter to the Supreme Courtyard by Marriott_, by Ken Paxton and Rudy Giuliani _Telephone Rantings of a Madman_, by Brad Raffensperger _A Teen’s Guide to Emancipation from Parents_, by Barron Trump ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9110 "2021-01-20T07:06:54Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > It affected quite a few races in California from the US House on down to city representatives. It’s this. If the presidency is decided early, west coast votes won’t change it. But people staying home can fuck up a lot of close down-ballot races. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9111 "2021-01-20T07:19:50Z")
The pardons are in. 143 of them. Steve Bannon, Lil Wayne, Elliott Broidy, but no Giuliani, and nobody named Trump or Kushner. > **[Trump Pardons And Commutes 143 People On His Last Day — But Doesn’t Pardon...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/01/20/trump-pardons-and-commutes-on-his-last-day---but-doesnt-pardon-his-family/)** > > The list includes former advisor Steve Bannon and rapper Lil Wayne. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9112 "2021-01-20T07:27:43Z")
No Tiger King? He has a limo to catch. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9113 "2021-01-20T07:31:25Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The pardons are in. 143 of them. That is only $286M. Nowhere close to what he needs to get out of the red ink. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9114 "2021-01-20T07:34:58Z")
> TLDR = adult website bans cam models from using MyPillow products for sexy playtime performances. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9115 "2021-01-20T08:02:27Z")
Has anyone made an argument based on a strict reading of Article II, Section 2? > [@U.S. Constitution Article II Section 2](#): > > …and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. That last bit–Trump is, as of the issuance of these pardons, under an active impeachment, and it certainly makes legal sense to deny the power of the pardon to someone who may use it to sway an ongoing case against themselves (let alone one who may try to pardon themselves for the issue(s) for which they are being impeached). In terms of intent, it seems unlikely that the power was meant to be used by an impeached President to pardon those who aided and abetted in his offenses. The language is not terribly precise. Could we make the argument that it means pardons issued while the issuer is under impeachment carry no force? At least long enough to make the scumbags sweat? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9116 "2021-01-20T08:42:40Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > That last bit–Trump is, as of the issuance of these pardons, under an active impeachment, and it certainly makes legal sense to deny the power of the pardon to someone who may use it to sway an ongoing case against themselves That is a tad problematic, though. If he pardons someone that might give testimony in an impeachment setting, that person has no opportunity to take the fifth (rye notwithstanding) and so may be forced to say things that Individual-ONE did not want said. That was the crux of the hundred-year-old case that originally established that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9117 "2021-01-20T10:05:26Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I was on the phone with a coworker in India today, comparing vaccine distribution challenges. I commented “it’s all being run on the state or local level today, but it could completely change tomorrow.” Talking to the FoxNews-brainwashed in-laws in Florida yesterday, who were telling us they had been approved to get the vaccine just as soon as Florida got its shipment from the federal reserve. We had to break the news to them that [there ain’t no reserve](https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/01/15/us-has-no-covid-19-vaccine-reserve-despite-trump-administrations-claims-report-says/?sh=192a3d4a173b). They insisted that there was, because “Trump said there is!”. We sent them the articles. “Oh - that must be new,” they said. If they’d found out two days later, they’d have blamed it on Biden. Can’t hammer reality into some people. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > It’s almost a wrap, folks. How about we guess the book titles to be published by people involved in this clusterfuck? > > “Fuck It, I’m Going to Hell Anyway: My Journey to the Top of the Geriatric Scheiße Porn Industry,” by Mike Pence > “Becoming,” by Melania Trump > “Daddy Always Loved Me Best,” by Ivanka Trump & Lindsey Graham > “Why Does Everyone Keep Calling Me ‘Beavis,’ My Name Is Eric!” by Eric Trump And then there’s [Hillary’s book](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1279094-hillary-clintons-what-happened-book). [![](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/279/094/fd5.jpg) ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/279/094/fd5.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9118 "2021-01-20T13:05:10Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I think it was Chris Hayes tonight (or maybe it was a guest) who remarked that McConnell is being _very_ canny and careful in his phraseology here. > > He admits that Trump “provoked” the mob, but he did _not_ say that Trump incited the riot. > > This lets him publicly disapprove of Trump while still being able to vote against impeachment because what Trump did was only _provoke_ , not _incite_ , so it doesn’t rise to the level of an impeachable offense. McConnell is the Talleyrand of today. > [@](#): > > **Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord** > He worked at the highest levels of successive French governments, most commonly as foreign minister or in some other diplomatic capacity. His career spanned the regimes of [Louis XVI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XVI_of_France), the years of the French Revolution, [Napoleon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon), [Louis XVIII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XVIII_of_France), and [Louis-Philippe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Philippe_I). Those Talleyrand served often distrusted him but, like Napoleon, found him extremely useful. The name “Talleyrand” has become a byword for crafty, cynical diplomacy. > **[Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Maurice_de_Talleyrand-P%C3%A9rigord)** > > Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord (/ˌtælɪrænd ˈpɛrɪɡɔːr/, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}French: \[ʃaʁl mɔʁis də tal(ɛ)ʁɑ̃ peʁiɡɔʁ, – moʁ-\]; 2 February 1754 – 17 May 1838), 1st Prince of Benevento, then Prince of Talleyrand, was a French secularised clergyman, statesman and leading diplomat. After studying theology, he became... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9119 "2021-01-20T13:08:59Z")
The Trump Administration’s last gasp (one hopes) to extend its reach into the Biden administration > [@](#): > > The Trump administration has signed agreements with Arizona, Louisiana, Indiana, and one lone sheriff’s office in North Carolina that state any future immigration changes made by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) first have to be run by the localities before the federal government can act, BuzzFeed News [reports](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/dhs-states-agreements-biden). If that sounds like a bunch of bull to you, you’re not wrong. > > Santa Clara University School of Law professor Pratheepan Gulasekaram [told BuzzFeed News that the policy](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/dhs-states-agreements-biden) “is just another last-ditch effort to try and ingrain a reckless hyper enforcement system, but completely unmoored from legal, constitutional ways of implementing policy.” But aside from even that, the paperwork was signed by anti-immigrant goofball Ken Cuccinelli, [found to be unlawfully serving](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/14/1969214/-Legislators-demand-resignations-after-GAO-finds-DHS-leaders-were-unlawfully-appointed-to-positions) as deputy at the department. > **['Under no circumstances is this legal': Cuccinelli's attempt to delay Biden...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/19/2010391/--Under-no-circumstances-is-this-legal-Cuccinelli-s-attempt-to-delay-Biden-changes-gets-ridiculed?utm_campaign=trending)** > > The Trump administration has signed agreements with Arizona, Louisiana, Indiana, and one lone sheriff’s office in North Carolina that state any future immigration changes made by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) first have to... ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9120 "2021-01-20T13:31:31Z")
Sitting in a hotel lobby waiting for my ride. Near an airport so air crews stay here. A couple of pilots walked by and I heard this exchange: “How are you this morning?” “It’s the best day of my life!” “Mine too!” 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9121 "2021-01-20T13:38:56Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The Trump Administration’s last gasp (one hopes) to extend its reach into the Biden administration I mean, I’m all in favor of a Supreme Court ruling that it’s legal for an administration to put into place laws and agreements that are irrevocable, that are effectively binding on all future administrations. And for this legal principle to be established _now_. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9122 "2021-01-20T13:45:41Z")
This isn’t a Trump Administration Fustercluck, but I’m not sure where else to put it: > [@](#): > > **Mitch McConnell Wants Democrats To Commit To Keeping Legislative Filibuster** > > Senate Republican leader [Mitch McConnell](https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/mitch-mcconnell) wants assurances from [Democrats](https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/democratic-party) that they will preserve the powerful legislative filibuster once they assume control of the chamber on Wednesday Why, bless his heart, of _course_ he does. Hurts, doesn’t it? > **[Mitch McConnell Wants Democrats To Commit To Keeping Legislative Filibuster](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/filibuster-mcconnell-schumer-biden_n_600756c4c5b6df63a91ab447)** > > Via a spokesperson, incoming Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer declined to make any such pledge. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9123 "2021-01-20T14:07:32Z")
I wouldn’t take much comfort in the fact that Trump hasn’t pardoned his family or himself, yet. He can still do so and, perhaps, already has with the announcement to be made after he has departed on AF One for the last time. He probably wouldn’t want to take the chance that his farewell “crowd” might be diminished by such an announcement. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9124 "2021-01-20T14:21:26Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Sitting in a hotel lobby waiting for my ride. Near an airport so air crews stay here. A couple of pilots walked by and I heard this exchange: > “How are you this morning?” > “It’s the best day of my life!” > “Mine too!” > > 😄 Were they pilots for Air Force 1? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9125 "2021-01-20T14:37:11Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Has anyone made an argument based on a strict reading of Article II, Section 2? > > > [@U.S. Constitution Article II Section 2](#): > > > > …and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. > > That last bit–Trump is, as of the issuance of these pardons, under an active impeachment, and it certainly makes legal sense to deny the power of the pardon to someone who may use it to sway an ongoing case against themselves (let alone one who may try to pardon themselves for the issue(s) for which they are being impeached). In terms of intent, it seems unlikely that the power was meant to be used by an impeached President to pardon those who aided and abetted in his offenses. > > The language is not terribly precise. Could we make the argument that it means pardons issued while the issuer is under impeachment carry no force? At least long enough to make the scumbags sweat? Slight derailment … Would it require a constitutional amendment to restrict the president’s pardoning powers so that pardons and whatnot had to be issued before election day? Or could that be done through standard legislation? This would eliminate these shameful pardons (which prior presidents of both parties have also issued) that have no political accountability. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=454) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=456)