# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 470
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9406 "2021-01-30T21:44:25Z")
Granted. However, > [@14th Amendment §2](#): > > … But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the ~~male~~ inhabitants of such State, being ~~twenty-one~~ (18) years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such ~~male~~ citizens shall bear to the whole number of ~~male~~ citizens ~~twenty-one years~~ (18) of age in such State. it could prove problematic. By disenfranchising voters from choosing electors, a state could, in theory, lose its entire congressional delegation. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9407 "2021-01-30T21:47:38Z")
I don’t think the law would survive the Supremes, even as rightward-tilting as this set is. The Constitution mandates that the Feds guarantee the states have a republican government, not a “Republican” one. Even with the blows they have given to voting rights, the outright ignoring of the popular vote would be beyond the pale, no matter what the Founders thought. The 14th Amendment and equal protection still have a little weight at that level. It would be effectively disenfranchising over half the state. Shit, I don’t think _any_ judge would stand for that. ninja’d, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9408 "2021-01-30T22:04:43Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > ninja’d, dammit! It took me a long time to format that post. You must be getting slow in my old age. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9409 "2021-01-30T23:08:23Z")
> [@14th Amendment §2](#): > > … But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the ~~male~~ inhabitants of such State, being ~~twenty-one~~ (18) years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such ~~male~~ citizens shall bear to the whole number of ~~male~~ citizens ~~twenty-one years~~ (18) of age in such State. ONE period! Were they in short supply, rationed, held hostage? I don’t suppose we, the citizens, could have a plain language constitution? [/s] Yes I know that rewriting anything would involve years of court cases about original intent and the divine words of our floundering fathers. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9410 "2021-01-30T23:19:09Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Yes I know that rewriting anything would involve years of court cases about original intent and the divine words of our floundering fathers. Point of order: Wordplay about Founding/floundering fathers aside, I’m confident that NONE of the founding fathers were involved in the drafting and passage of Amendment Fourteen. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9411 "2021-01-31T02:59:54Z")
At least two (and I’ve heard more, though I can’t find documentation of it) of Individual 1’s impeachment lawyers have already resigned. > **[Trump loses impeachment lawyers days before Senate trial is due to begin](https://www.axios.com/2021/01/31/trump-loses-impeachment-lawyers-senate-trial)** > > Trump's trial is due to begin on Feb. 8. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9412 "2021-01-31T03:23:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The founding fathers didn’t have that much faith in the electorate. And for good reason. They felt that the noble principles of democracy should be at least partially mitigated by the wisdom of the few educated elite, such as themselves, against the whims of the ignorant masses. Today, unfortunately, the ignorant masses are running rampant, education and facts are reviled, the very word “elite” has turned into a term of disparagement, and the nation has turned into exactly the opposite of what the founders had envisioned. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9413 "2021-01-31T03:25:32Z")
Here’s another story. > **[Trump Parts Ways With Five Lawyers Handling Impeachment Defense (Published 2021)](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/us/politics/trump-butch-bowers-impeachment.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage)** > > The departures, which include his lead lawyer, Butch Bowers, come more than a week before his Senate trial is set to begin. > Former President Donald J. Trump has abruptly parted ways with the lead lawyer handling his impeachment defense, just over a week before the Senate trial is set to begin, a person familiar with the situation said on Saturday. > > Butch Bowers, a South Carolina lawyer whose hiring was announced last week, will no longer be part of Mr. Trump’s legal team, the person familiar with the situation said. Neither will Deborah Barbier, a criminal defense lawyer in South Carolina who was also reported to be joining. > > The decision was “mutual,” the person said, noting that Mr. Trump and Mr. Bowers had no chemistry, a quality the former president generally prizes in his relationships. **Mr. Trump prefers lawyers who are eager to appear on television to say that he never did anything wrong** ; Mr. Bowers has been noticeably absent in the news media since his hiring was announced. > … My bold. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9414 "2021-01-31T03:43:33Z")
What, Rudy and Sidney and Lin no longer available? [/snerk] ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9415 "2021-01-31T03:51:13Z")
The Twitter-deprived twit is apparently desperate for all the positive news he can get. He’s almost certain to be acquitted by the Senate, but on the last Bill Maher show, Katie Couric mentioned that it only takes a simple majority to block him from ever running again, and that this is independent of whether he is successfully convicted on the impeachment charge. That last bit is news to me. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9416 "2021-01-31T03:52:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > What, Rudy and Sidney and Lin no longer available? - > [/snerk] No matter how much cheaper another team is, they couldn’t possibly do worse. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9417 "2021-01-31T03:52:31Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > At least two (and I’ve heard more, though I can’t find documentation of it) of Individual 1’s impeachment lawyers have already resigned. Yep. Besides **ThelmaLou’s** NYT source, CNN is reporting it now too. [https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/30/politics/butch-bowers-deborah-barbier-trump-impeachment-team/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/30/politics/butch-bowers-deborah-barbier-trump-impeachment-team/index.html) > [Butch Bowers](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/25/politics/impeachment-trump-lawyer-legal-team/index.html) and [Deborah Barbier](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/politics/trump-impeachment-defense-team-south-carolina/index.html), who were expected to be two of the lead attorneys, are no longer on the team. A source familiar with the changes said it was a mutual decision for both to leave the legal team. As the lead attorney, Bowers assembled the team. > Josh Howard, a North Carolina attorney who was recently added to the team, has also left, according to another source familiar with the changes. Johnny Gasser and Greg Harris, also from South Carolina, are no longer involved with the case, either. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9418 "2021-01-31T03:54:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No matter how much cheaper another team is, they couldn’t possibly do worse. IANAL, and I’m confident that if they hired me, I’d do worse (quite possibly intentionally). I may not be cheap, though. ETA: With all his lawyers quitting, he may NEED me! My price just quintupled. Or, Trump, being better than everyone at everything, could just represent himself. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9419 "2021-01-31T03:57:07Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No matter how much cheaper another team is, they couldn’t possibly do worse. Sure they could. The Orange Peril could hire Marjorie Taylor Greene, who would call for the immediate execution of all plaintiffs, whoever they might be. ETA: Oooh … she’s on great terms with him. too! 😃 [https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/30/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-phone-call-trump/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/30/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-phone-call-trump/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9420 "2021-01-31T04:01:47Z")
She’s not a lawyer. Granted, The Three Stooges Law Firm aren’t lawyers in any real sense either but Greene would not be allowed to act as an attorney in any court(I think). ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9421 "2021-01-31T04:07:27Z")
That article I posted said that the lawyers are leaving because Individual 1 wants to claim that the election was stolen as his defense. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9422 "2021-01-31T04:16:39Z")
Yes, it sounds like they argued for a procedural approach (“you can’t impeach me because I’m not president”), but he wants to go with “teh election fraud!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9423 "2021-01-31T04:41:33Z")
Maybe they were afraid they wouldn’t get paid. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9424 "2021-01-31T04:57:28Z")
CNN says no retainer letters were signed. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/9425 "2021-01-31T05:05:18Z")
# [Five attorneys leave team less than two weeks before trial](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-impeachment-defense-five-attorneys-leave-team-less-than-two-weeks-before-trial/ar-BB1dfnPj?li=BBnb7Kz) Ethics may not let them argue a case they know to be bullshit? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=469) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=471)