# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1069 "2020-07-16T21:27:47Z")
If the coronavirus data is revised downward significantly - which is the only reason I can see for this white house hijack - all that will happen is that Republican sympathisers and collaborators will open up their states and cities sooner and the pandemic will take off even further and even wider which in turn will create an ever greater incentive to fiddle the numbers even further out of whack. This is also perhaps one of the greatest threats US democracy has faced in a long time because it will corrode US Federal credibility, that will hurt politics internally but that will be as nothing compared to the international damage - US will pretty much lose its ability to influence its own allies. You’ll note I am using word such as ‘collaborators’ and ‘sympathisers’ because we are getting towards a situation where the lying manipulating authoritarian regime is moving in exactly the direction that those words imply There is no up side to any of it, and some very serious downsides. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1070 "2020-07-16T21:41:06Z")
> [@Kayleigh McEnany](#): > > The President has said unmistakably that he wants schools to open … and when he says ‘open’ he means open and full, kids being able to attend each and every day at their school. **The science should not stand in the way of this.** > **[White House Press Secretary Says Science Won't 'Stand In The Way' Of...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-house-science-schools-reopening_n_5f10a3cac5b619afc3ff1db1)** > > Kayleigh McEnany defended Trump's push for all schools to reopen with in-person instruction this fall, even as coronavirus cases surge nationwide. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1071 "2020-07-16T22:13:16Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > If the coronavirus data is revised downward significantly - which is the only reason I can see for this white house hijack - all that will happen is that Republican sympathisers and collaborators will open up their states and cities sooner and the pandemic will take off even further and even wider which in turn will create an ever greater incentive to fiddle the numbers even further out of whack. That’s undoubtedly true, but: how will we know? He who controls the data controls the story. If the White House says “Numbers dropping! Everything’s great!” who can dispute that? (I imagine, though, that there will be alternative data sources that don’t go through HHS. State-level health departments, perhaps. I hope.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1072 "2020-07-16T22:20:38Z")
> [@bobsmom101](#): > > The real solution to this problem is for the leadership **OF BOTH PARTIES** to stop enabling multinational corporations’ shipping jobs overseas that could reasonably be done here in the US. I am old enough to remember when most apparel and shoes and appliances were made in the US, often by union-represented workers who were paid enough that they didn’t need a two-income household to support a minimum standard of living. There also weren’t a zillion other jobs back then that exist today. Yes, you can’t get a job making T-shirts because they’re all made in China. Of course, the Chinese spend billions upon billions a year on American stuff they don’t make, too. Prior to the pandemic, the unemployment rate was extremely low. The problem is not that T-shirts are made in China. That’s perfectly fine. The problem is COVID-19. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1073 "2020-07-17T00:49:44Z")
Well, the _official_ unemployment rate seemed very low, but the shift, especially among younger and minority workers, to low-paid gigs and service jobs made them especially vulnerable to the COVID crisis. The shipment of manufacturing jobs overseas has been going on for decades, because of the influence of multinational corporations who benefit, and to the detriment of working people in all countries and the global environment. Millenials and Gen Z, particularly the minorities, are bearing the double burden of higher unemployment, crushing student loans, and the fact that even if they graduate from college their degrees don’t do them much good. ([Here’s who’s being hit hardest by the economic downturn | PBS NewsHour](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/heres-whos-being-hit-hardest-by-the-economic-downturn)) The incumbent (sorry, I refuse to use his name) campaigned on bringing back (really awful) jobs like coal mining and creating new ones in infrastructure improvements. It didn’t happen before the COVID crisis and it’s certainly not going to happen now. I agree with you that the pandemic is turning the unemployment situation from bad to disastrous, but the basic problems are decades old and were exacerbated by automation and the policies of both Democratic and Republican administrations. ([20+ Incredible Statistics on Loss of Manufacturing Jobs [2021 Data]](https://whattobecome.com/blog/loss-of-manufacturing-jobs/)) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1074 "2020-07-17T02:34:51Z")
I saw a screen cap of a tweet from an account that does not seem to exist, but the text of it was > [@](#): > > (Kumquat)'s argument for re-election is that he will put a stop to this. But it’s happening while he’s president. He’s running as a challenger to himself. Re-elect me so I can stop the awful stuff that happened while I was President is a strategy I don’t think I’ve ever seen before. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1075 "2020-07-17T02:49:10Z")
Neil Cavuto of Fox interrupted today’s Individual 1 blatherings to fact check him. > **[Fox Host Neil Cavuto Cuts Away From Trump Speech to Note It...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-host-neil-cavuto-cuts-223637493.html)** > > Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto cut into a White House speech by President Donald Trump on Thursday to once again correct some mischaracterizations the president made, specifically over former President Barack Obama’s economic record, which Cavuto noted... ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1076 "2020-07-17T02:56:27Z")
McNinny gets smacked upside the head. > **[Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot calls White House press secretary 'Karen'](https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-mayor-lori-lightfoot-calls-224551355.html)** > > "Hey, Karen. Watch your mouth," the mayor tweeted in response to the White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, describing her as "derelict." ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1077 "2020-07-17T03:02:20Z")
Hmmm…Karen Goebbels. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1078 "2020-07-17T03:28:13Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Who will then what? Report the numbers? They already aren’t doing that - the publicly accessible database won’t be updated past July 14. And apparently the electronic portal for hospitals to submit their data to the CDC has been shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1079 "2020-07-17T03:31:52Z")
AND...... With the Covid-19 epidemic in the United States thus solved, there can be no further objection to full in-person re-start of our precious schools in August or September! Win-Win! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1080 "2020-07-17T03:36:05Z")
The attempt at a bloodless coup is in full swing. > **[Mail delays likely as new postal boss pushes cost-cutting](https://apnews.com/59c25efd4d325c4895f8ba85517f9bfd)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — Mail deliveries could be delayed by a day or more under cost-cutting efforts being imposed by the new postmaster general... I haven’t seen this mentioned on the board. And it’s not even Friday! > **[Attorney general taps another Justice Department insider for top prosecutor job](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-justice-prosecutors/attorney-general-taps-another-justice-department-insider-for-top-prosecutor-job-idUSKCN24H3B9)** > > U.S. Attorney General William Barr installed a new interim U.S. attorney in the Northern District of Alabama on Thursday, the latest appointee to come out of the Justice Department in Washington to serve in an acting capacity as a top federal... What a shit show. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1081 "2020-07-17T03:44:04Z")
Well there you go then. Like a miracle, the virus will just disappear. Trump the hero. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1082 "2020-07-17T04:17:46Z")
[Unidentified federal agents in camouflage and driving unmarked vehicles are pulling people off the streets of Portland Oregon.](https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/) They are being told nothing when they are put into those vehicles, they are having the eyes covered so they can’t see where they’re going, and they’re not being read their rights at the scene. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1083 "2020-07-17T06:10:01Z")
Speaking of Goya, I looked him up in that thingy, and the first image that showed up on his page (after his own portrait at the top) was a piece titled “[WhiteHouse 2020](https://www.pubhist.com/works/16/large/francisco_goya_yard_lunatics.jpg)”. Prophetic bastard he was. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1084 "2020-07-17T09:01:13Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > [Unidentified federal agents in camouflage and driving unmarked vehicles are pulling people off the streets of Portland Oregon.](https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/) They are being told nothing when they are put into those vehicles, they are having the eyes covered so they can’t see where they’re going, and they’re not being read their rights at the scene. And the response by the conservatives and the non-urban are to either deny this is happening or, worse yet, cheer it on. [Martin Niemöller is probably rolling in his grave.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1085 "2020-07-17T13:56:42Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > You’ll note I am using word such as ‘collaborators’ and ‘sympathisers’ because we are getting towards a situation where the lying manipulating authoritarian regime is moving in exactly the direction that those words imply > > There is no up side to any of it, and some very serious downsides. As a libertarian, I would tell people, “Both conservatives and liberals have a dream of how wonderful everything will be if only the ‘right people’ would get elected, and want a powerful government to effect those policies. The libertarians’ nightmare, on the other hand, is how horrible if their worst enemy was in power and want to limit government power accordingly.” The events since 2016 are now quite apparent to the liberals. If they weren’t so dependent on Federal aid, the schools and hospitals could collectively give a single-digit salute to the demands of Donny Two-scoops and his lick-spittles. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1086 "2020-07-17T14:10:22Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > …If they weren’t so dependent on Federal aid, the schools and hospitals… And WHY are they “so dependent”? Hmmm? Take off the blinders and sunglasses and have a look around at today’s world. Schools and hospitals can’t function or stay in business without federal aid. The answer is not less federal aid, it’s higher taxes (on the wealthy-- none on the poor) and MORE federal aid. Yup, I’m talkin’ about socialism. The stuff that works in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1087 "2020-07-17T14:18:34Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > As a libertarian, I would tell people, “Both conservatives and liberals have a dream of how wonderful everything will be if only the ‘right people’ would get elected, and want a powerful government to effect those policies. The libertarians’ nightmare, on the other hand, is how horrible if their worst enemy was in power and want to limit government power accordingly.” > > The events since 2016 are now quite apparent to the liberals. If they weren’t so dependent on Federal aid, the schools and hospitals could collectively give a single-digit salute to the demands of Donny Two-scoops and his lick-spittles. I think there is a lesson here to be taken away for libertarians as well. Fragmented government and policies simply don’t work when municipalities are being sued by state government because their public policies are in conflict with one another, while federal authorities both demand compliance and wash their hands of responsibility. All science supported conclusions indicate that a national/federal lead response was needed to effectively control this pandemic outbreak. A piecemeal approach and lack of federal leadership lead us to where we are now. Myriad examples of how this was handled by other nations underscore the point that a competent federal response is far more successful than a local one that is so often advocated by libertarians. In short, stop trying to make Libertaria happen. It’s a failed premise. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1088 "2020-07-17T14:24:05Z")
Oh, trust me, I’m looking. What with the increasing use of automation I’m thinking that UBI – the ultimate social welfare program – is not such a bad idea after all. Why does the aid have to to be Federal, though? Collecting taxes, shipping all the way to Washington, then back to where it’s needed seems inherently wasteful and subject to whims of people far, far away. Why can’t the aid come from state, county, or local taxes? In any event, the thread is about the clusterfuck we are living in today, not flaws in the libertarian philosophy. End of highjack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=55)