# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083 "2020-06-22T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1089 "2020-07-17T15:02:23Z")
We’ve already lost that ability in the short term; it’ll take years to get that credibility back if we ever can. That’s not to say that the US will collapse into complete irrelevance. We’ll still have opportunities to confront China and other “pariah” states, but more than they ever did before, each country that we consider to be an ally will have to think a lot harder about the political and economic consequences of joining the US in its global crusades and adventures. Allied countries have probably already started hedging their risk and decoupling from the US to some degree, and after the Trump era, that process will probably be hastened - not to send the US a message or to ‘punish’ us but to protect themselves. Of course, we don’t even know it’s happening, and when we do finally wake up and smell the piss, we probably won’t understand why. We’ll probably see ourselves as ‘victims’ of global ‘envy’ like we always do. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1090 "2020-07-17T15:24:23Z")
Unfortunately this is not about the ‘right’ people being re-elected, this is about the worst people being re-elected. The worst examples of government come both from the left and the right and have little in common in their headline philosophies, however their behaviors tendencies and actions generally display similar mindsets and ultimately similar oppressive outcomes. All regimes can and do have an element of corruption, but extremist regimes attempt to normalise their corruption whilst cracking down on the corruption of others - which they frequently define for their own convenience. We have Trumphead admin handing out posts on the basis of collaboration and not on expertise - but at least this is obvious and accountable to the electorate and in some cases the judiciary. Manipulation of information in order to avoid public accountability is extremely serious, it is far and away more serious than other administrations have done. We are all aware of government spin on information, this is different, this is replacing information with direct intent. It does not matter which tone of government does it, left or right, libertarian or social - what you have has moved away from your stated position of libertarianism, this is now about power to be as corrupt as necessary - we are not far off Nixon here and in some ways it has even greater potential for national harm. You might take a quick snipe at other political outlooks but that is misleading yourself, this is not a republican party neither is it libertarian. If you are either of those you need to decide which side of freedom you now stand. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1091 "2020-07-17T15:41:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In short, stop trying to make Libertaria happen. It’s a failed premise. I think libertarianism, like all the other “isms”, has some valid points and some valid ideas, the problem is that in its pure state its weaknesses are also apparent and sometimes fatal. In short, I favor a _blend_ of “isms” - socialism in constructing a social safety net, capitalism for a working economy and innovation, and libertarianism for fostering a level of self-reliance and independence. And so on. I’m not sure what you’d call that - moderationism? > [@DesertDog](#): > > Oh, trust me, I’m looking. What with the increasing use of automation I’m thinking that UBI – the ultimate social welfare program – is not such a bad idea after all. Why does the aid have to to be Federal, though? Collecting taxes, shipping all the way to Washington, then back to where it’s needed seems inherently wasteful and subject to whims of people far, far away. Why can’t the aid come from state, county, or local taxes? Why can’t it come from all levels? If one thing that this current shitshow of a year has demonstrated it’s that having strength in different levels of government shores up society when one or another level of governance fails. New York State, for example, picked up the ball and ran with it and now they’re getting the pandemic under some control whereas Georgia, Florida, etc. and turning into catastrophes because their state governance is as bad as the Federal level right now. Some things are best handled on the local level. But some actually ARE handled best on a state, national, or even continental level. Use the appropriate tool for the job at hand. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1092 "2020-07-17T15:44:17Z")
Worse than Nixon – way, way worse, IMO. Not because Nixon himself didn’t have those tendencies, but the difference is that Republicans during his time did not enable him. Maybe it’s more like they were simply unable to enable him in that manner. Trump’s (and the right wing’s) war on data is, as you say, designed to remove accountability. Authoritarian regimes try to erase truth so that they become the source of truth. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1093 "2020-07-17T17:12:39Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Why does the aid have to to be Federal, though? Collecting taxes, shipping all the way to Washington, then back to where it’s needed seems inherently wasteful and subject to whims of people far, far away. “Shipping”? Are you under the impression that federal revenue collection and distribution is still carried out by hauling around bags of specie, in the way that back in the day made mail trains so attractive to Jesse James and his ilk? Sure, some people still send tax checks through the mail, but some people would be doing that even for their state or local taxes. And in this day of instantaneous communication, far-flung social networks and geographically dispersed families, complaining that decision-makers in Washington are “people far, far away” just sounds fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1094 "2020-07-17T17:31:34Z")
Trump’s COVID response is best viewed that as of an abuser punishing the country because we didn’t like him enough. Is this the Pit? Great. Fuck you if you voted Trump in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1095 "2020-07-17T17:57:39Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Fuck you if you voted Trump in 2016. And go fuck yourself if you’re going to vote for him again. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1096 "2020-07-17T18:46:03Z")
And fuck anyone who disagrees with either your or JT’s posts above. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1097 "2020-07-17T18:49:37Z")
Wait, there’s more. Call now, and we’ll give you federal law enforcement harassment in response to legitimate protests. > **[DHS Chief Aims to 'Restore Order' in Portland Whether Mayor Likes It or Not](https://www.newsweek.com/dhs-portland-george-floyd-protests-1518552)** > > "We're not going to abdicate our mission," said DHS Acting Secretary Chad Wolf. Operators are standing by. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1098 "2020-07-17T19:20:36Z")
It sure looks like Trump declare martial law in Portland and neglected to mention it to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1099 "2020-07-17T19:39:40Z")
People need to set up dedicated covert surveillance spots to film the streets of Portland and get footage of one or more of these incidents. Get license plate numbers, unmasked faces, etc. on video for the world to see what is happening. I bet they could even find someone who can pilot a drone well enough to follow the vehicle and see where it goes, exactly. Show ‘em that Portland isn’t Chicago, y’all know what I’m sayin’? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1100 "2020-07-17T19:50:12Z")
Trump’s law enforcement response in DC and Portland, coupled with Gov. Kemp’s response of calling up the guard in Georgia portends something very, very bad later this year. They know they’re losing the election, but they have no idea of playing fair or conceding defeat and going quietly into the night. We already know of authoritarian regimes using COVID-19 as an excuse to suspend liberty and democracy. With all that the GOP’s history the last decade or so, it’s naive to believe they’re not plotting a coup right now. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1101 "2020-07-17T20:56:01Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Trump’s COVID response is best viewed that as of an abuser punishing the country because we didn’t like him enough. I believe another leader felt that way about his people. > [@Adolf Hitler (a week before his suicide)](#): > > "[Everyone has lied to me, everyone has deceived me… the has left me in the lurch. The German people have not fought heroically. It deserves to perish… it is not I who have lost the war, but the German people](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4297329,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1102 "2020-07-17T20:57:46Z")
The situation in Portland has caught the attention of Vanity Fair, the ACLU, Oregon’s governor, OR Senator Ron Wyden, and Nancy Pelosi, who have all demanded an explanation. So expect to hear more (fortunately). ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1103 "2020-07-17T21:11:21Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > If they weren’t so dependent on Federal aid, the schools and hospitals could collectively give a single-digit salute to the demands of Donny Two-scoops and his lick-spittles. Yeah! If there were no CDC and no HRSA, hospitals wouldn’t have to send data to anyone. Problem solved! ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1104 "2020-07-17T21:33:09Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The situation in Portland has caught the attention of Vanity Fair, the ACLU, Oregon’s governor, OR Senator Ron Wyden, and Nancy Pelosi, who have all demanded an explanation. So expect to hear more (fortunately). Good! I’m kind of glad they’re trying this crap well before the election. As long as it’s exposed and people (hopefully, on both sides of the aisle) object. And somehow stop them. What if they’d kept these things secret until the beginning of November? But it looks like they can’t wait, so we get to see their playbook with enough time to out them. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1105 "2020-07-17T21:44:05Z")
The acting Secretary of DHS was in Portland recently. The Multnomah County Sheriff told him to [fuck off](https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor-denounces-blatant-abuse-of-power-by-federal-police-sweeping-protesters-off-portland-streets-144916768.html), you are fucking things up. Note the “acting”. It looks like CFSG likes actors. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1106 "2020-07-17T21:52:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The acting Secretary of DHS was in Portland recently. The Multnomah County Sheriff told him to [fuck off](https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor-denounces-blatant-abuse-of-power-by-federal-police-sweeping-protesters-off-portland-streets-144916768.html), you are fucking things up. > > Note the “acting”. It looks like CFSG likes actors. He loves them, because they don’t have to be Senate-approved, he gets sycophants in, they have far less power to push back (assuming they even want to) or protect their personnel, and he can fire them anytime he wants to until the acting term runs out (I think they can only be acting for about a year?). > [@digs](#): > > Good! I’m kind of glad they’re trying this crap well before the election. As long as it’s exposed and people (hopefully, on both sides of the aisle) object. And somehow stop them. The right-wing _loves_ that this is happening. He’s showing those libtards who’s boss! He’s being tough on criminals! He’s being a leader! LAW & ORDER! ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1107 "2020-07-18T01:28:51Z")
The stories about what’s happening in Portland sound like paranoid fever dreams, like tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories. Except they’re true. That’s what this country has come to. Reality is now as crazy as the rantings of a crackpot. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083/1108 "2020-07-18T02:15:12Z")
Never-Trumper and Lincoln Project co-founder Steve Schmidt calls on Oregon Governor to activate state police and state national guard to ARREST them. Six part twitter thread. > > [@](#): > > Portland Oregon. The Governor of Oregon should deploy the State Police and the National Guard to arrest on site any heavily armed Paramilitary forces who are operating without ID’s, Badges and snatching Americans off of the street and stuffing them into unmarked vehicles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux-part-1/911083.md?page=56)