# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1000
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19985 "2018-05-04T00:16:28Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The only mechanisms for explaining such a limit are: > > 1. At a certain point, the economy as a whole stops producing the goods and services needed to improve living standards. > 2. At a certain point, the goods and services needed to improve living standards start being diverted elsewhere. > > There is no evidence for (1) and scads of evidence for (2)… and no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the effect is better explained as an inevitable natural phenomenon rather than the more intuitive explanation that it results from deliberate policy choices by the beneficiaries of the diversion. Yes…In particular, [there has been plenty of real wage growth at the very top of the income spectrum.](https://www.epi.org/blog/wages-rose-for-the-bottom-90-percent-in-2016-as-those-for-top-1-percent-fell/) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19986 "2018-05-04T00:22:25Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Second Sunday here - the first Sunday is the start of duckshooting season. I thought that was the start of rabbit season. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19987 "2018-05-04T00:27:12Z")
Duckshooting season! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19988 "2018-05-04T00:29:42Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Second Sunday here - the first Sunday is the start of duckshooting season. > [@dropzone](#): > > I thought that was the start of rabbit season. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Duckshooting season! You’re all dethpicable! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19989 "2018-05-04T00:29:43Z")
Wabbit season! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19990 "2018-05-04T01:07:12Z")
The folks over at the EPA are getting tired of all heat their boss Scott Pruitt has been taking, so to deflect some of the fire, a staffer over there decided it might help to direct it at Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke. > **[Scott Pruitt’s staffer reportedly had a genius plan to help his boss: smear...](https://www.vox.com/2018/5/3/17316490/epa-scott-pruitt-staffer-zinke-interiors)** > > The White House found out, and wasn’t pleased. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19991 "2018-05-04T01:15:50Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > I’ve seen articles saying there’s been a 10 % rise in real wages for an individual since 1973. That there has been a perception of a rise in purchasing power due to the rising number of two-income households and increased credit, but once you correct for that, remuneration has been close to stagnant. > > Anecdotally, I’ve noted over my time of noticing these things that people in Western Europe seems to have had increasing standards of living since the 70s. While the USA has steadily posted higher growth rates. > > Might be a GD subject. You don’t think we’ve seen an increasing standard of living in the US? I’m not sure how anyone could feel that way, but ok. You couldn’t pay me enough to live a 1970s lifestyle. The percentage of married couple families with two earners has been relatively flat for decades. [https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-databook/2017/home.htm](https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-databook/2017/home.htm) And the number of households that are “married families” has been decreasing. [http://www.prb.org/Publications/Reports/2012/us-household-change.aspx](http://www.prb.org/Publications/Reports/2012/us-household-change.aspx) I can’t speak to the availability of credit, but the two-earner argument doesn’t fly. And of course, we see real household income rising over the decades ([PDF](https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/113th-congress-2013-2014/reports/49440-distribution-income-and-taxes-2.pdf)) But you are right to look at demographic changes. The boomers are retiring, being replaced by new entrants to the workforce. More than replaced, given that we’re seeing increases to total payrolls. And of course we expect new people to get paid less than experienced people. But most folks already in the workforce are earning more: [The Good News on Wage Growth - San Francisco Fed](https://www.frbsf.org/our-district/about/sf-fed-blog/wage-growth-good-news/) And yes it might be a GD subject. It’s been a GD subject. I don’t think any of the above hasn’t already been discussed there in one thread or another. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19992 "2018-05-04T06:39:53Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Second Sunday here - the first Sunday is the start of duckshooting season. Oh ok. So first you can shoot down _Mamá Pata_\*, then invite Mom over for orange duck! - In Spanish, Mother Goose sometimes changes species. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19993 "2018-05-04T13:17:44Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You don’t think we’ve seen an increasing standard of living in the US? I’m not sure how anyone could feel that way, but ok. You couldn’t pay me enough to live a 1970s lifestyle. Define ‘standard of living’. The '70s don’t seem much different from today, except we have a hundred times more TV channels, and better music. In the '70s families could live well on a single income, and kids went outside to play instead of playing video games all day. A middle class family could better afford to buy a house or even their own airplane, and fewer people went bankrupt because of medical expenses. When I started working in the '80s, insurance was the same percentage of my pay check as it is now, but it covered more. The Lunatic Fringe (today, Trump supporters) were more isolated without the Internet, and someone like Loser Donnie could not have been elected President. Of course there were problems, and of course there’s inflation. But except for better music and better entertainment, I don’t see that much of an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19994 "2018-05-04T13:48:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The '70s don’t seem much different from today, except we have a hundred times more TV channels, and better music. Play that funky music, white boy. The 70’s were alright. I got a lot of reading done. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19995 "2018-05-04T15:17:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Define ‘standard of living’. The '70s don’t seem much different from today, except we have a hundred times more TV channels, and _better music_. Sorry, your argument fails here. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19996 "2018-05-04T16:04:52Z")
“[Giuliani will] get my facts straight!” [FTFY, ya twit.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/04/politics/trump-giuliani-facts/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19997 "2018-05-04T16:14:50Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > “[Giuliani will] get my facts straight!” > > [FTFY, ya twit.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/04/politics/trump-giuliani-facts/index.html) Now we get to watch SHS respin the spin she unspun yesterday. She’s dizzy for a reason~ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19998 "2018-05-04T16:24:04Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Define ‘standard of living’. Exactly: all these sweeping comparisons depend crucially on exactly what aspects of life are being compared. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In the '70s families could live well on a single income, and kids went outside to play instead of playing video games all day. A middle class family could better afford to buy a house or even their own airplane, and fewer people went bankrupt because of medical expenses. When I started working in the '80s, insurance was the same percentage of my pay check as it is now, but it covered more. Moreover, higher education was much more affordable, [job security and likelihood of long-term employment was much better](https://www.princeton.edu/ceps/workingpapers/171farber.pdf), government support for basic scientific research and ambitious enterprises like moon missions was higher, religious fundamentalists weren’t mounting large-scale anti-science and anti-reproductive-rights crusades, etc. I think there have been huge areas of progress since the '70s in technology and consequent improvements in communications, medical breakthroughs, increased environmental awareness, etc. But whether that adds up to a better overall lifestyle depends very much on what you mean by “lifestyle”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/19999 "2018-05-04T16:29:37Z")
Having a hard time wrapping my head around how at a time when the clusterfuckery of this administration has never been more apparent, his poll numbers have been increasing to a high. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20000 "2018-05-04T16:36:33Z")
Ok, this irks me. When I half heard it from across the room and misunderstood, I was somewhat furious, but seeing the actual story calmed me down a bit. Still, the Shitgibbon has [shifted the focus](https://www.axios.com/trump-bill-belichick-sports-council-ivanka-ebbd42bd-ce22-44f6-8197-459aa33ce8cc.html) of the president’s council on sports, fitness and nutrition from the third thing to the first thing, to please the daughter he likes to molest. Which is all well and good until you get to the last name they list who has been added to the council: Oz. Fuck that ratbastard huckster no-account whore asswipe. Fuck him hard and sore into Tuesday. Is there even one person the CFSG approves of who as good as pond scum? Because most of them seem to be not that good. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20001 "2018-05-04T17:02:39Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Having a hard time wrapping my head around how at a time when the clusterfuckery of this administration has never been more apparent, his poll numbers have been increasing to a high. Yup. That is seriously depressing. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20002 "2018-05-04T17:10:00Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Having a hard time wrapping my head around how at a time when the clusterfuckery of this administration has never been more apparent, his poll numbers have been increasing to a high. The economy is doing well, and the perceived threat of war with North Korea is greatly reduced. (I think the actual threat was very low to begin with, but the media made it seem high for a while.) And I’m not sure if the “clusterfuckery” is any more apparent now than before. There seems to be more evidence for it, but it just confirmed what we suspected. Those of us who didn’t suspect (or didn’t think it was a big deal) continue to ignore the evidence and haven’t changed their mind. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20003 "2018-05-04T17:15:34Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Having a hard time wrapping my head around how at a time when the clusterfuckery of this administration has never been more apparent, his poll numbers have been increasing to a high. That’s because many people already know that it was going to be a clusterfuckery. I’m honestly surprised that anyone here is surprised that it is a clusterfuckery. As said above, the economy is doing fine, war threat is down. What more do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20004 "2018-05-04T17:25:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > As said above, the economy is doing fine, war threat is down. What more do you want? Decency, integrity, honesty, competence, class, and–oh yeah-- drain the swamp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=999) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1001)