# The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070 "2016-12-07T00:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1006
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20105 "2018-05-08T16:16:24Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Why do you find it necessary to point out they were Jews? Isn’t it enough to say they were foreign spies? Just wondering what his Nazi supporters might think about that. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20106 "2018-05-08T16:38:43Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Bringing in a sense of cluster fucks past, [Oliver North](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/oliver-north-named-president-of-the-national-rifle-association/2018/05/07/02cd2742-521c-11e8-9c91-7dab596e8252_story.html?utm_term=.892e8d87408c) will be the next president of the NRA. Why not. Just like the NRA, North was a backroom underhanded double dealing get in bed with our enemy, traitor. One with Iran-contra, and now the other with Russia, all the while waving their fucking flags. They are a perfect match for each other. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20107 "2018-05-08T16:41:55Z")
My question for the dope: If you are someone who supports leaving the Iran deal, what is the motive? What does that accomplish? What do we get? The point isn’t to argue about it. I don’t even understand why people want it, other than sheer partisan spite. Do international treaties now hinge on that? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20108 "2018-05-08T16:45:18Z")
It will certainly show North Korea’s leader that Trump can’t be trusted to maintain agreements made by the United States. That’s Trump-level deal making. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20109 "2018-05-08T17:57:14Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > My question for the dope: If you are someone who supports leaving the Iran deal, what is the motive? What does that accomplish? What do we get? > > The point isn’t to argue about it. I don’t even understand why people want it, other than sheer partisan spite. Do international treaties now hinge on that? :smack: To my understanding, there are three main motivators: 1. In exchange for agreement to abide by the JCPOA, Iran’s sanctions will be less oppressive 2. Seven to 15 years from now (it varies), Iran will be (ostensibly) free to resume their nuclear program 3. Because sanctions on Iran have been reduced as part of the JCPOA, Iran has more financial and operational freedom to continue to fund/meddle in the M.E. (i.e. Syria, Yemen, etc…) ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20110 "2018-05-08T18:09:34Z")
But with leaving the deal the 2) will become “right now”. So on smartness scale very trumpian. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20111 "2018-05-08T18:23:01Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > But with leaving the deal the 2) will become “right now”. So on smartness scale very trumpian. …aaaaaand we’re OUTIE. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20112 "2018-05-08T18:24:03Z")
So now Iran has every reason to develop nuclear weapons. Honestly, Trumpists are so stupid. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20113 "2018-05-08T18:28:24Z")
Macron must feel like a right silly cunt about now. I do hope Angela Merkle is on the phone to him right now telling him to pay her the 50 Euros. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20114 "2018-05-08T18:30:48Z")
The Iran deal was a multilateral deal with all of the US’s allies. If the allies refuse to recognize Trump’s unilateral pullout, will Trump drop sanctions on our allies? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20115 "2018-05-08T18:34:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So now Iran has every reason to develop nuclear weapons. Honestly, Trumpists are so stupid. No, allowing Iran to go back to developing nuclear weapons means Netanyahu and John Bolton have a reason to goad Turmp into starting a war. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20116 "2018-05-08T18:34:58Z")
Others have mentioned it, but think of the effect this will have on whatever happens with North Korea. I believe that our president, the stupidest and least-informed deal-maker in history, was going to get snookered by Little Rocket Man no matter what, but now any agreement North Korea pretends to agree to will be made with the clear knowledge that no agreement with Trump is worth anything. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20117 "2018-05-08T18:42:24Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Others have mentioned it, but think of the effect this will have on whatever happens with North Korea. I believe that our president, the stupidest and least-informed deal-maker in history, was going to get snookered by Little Rocket Man no matter what, but now any agreement North Korea pretends to agree to will be made with the clear knowledge that no agreement with Trump is worth anything. And regardless of what really happens, he will declare Victory and claim he did it all, when this was just another round of Kim sabre-rattling. The mouse that roared. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20118 "2018-05-08T18:56:05Z")
It won’t end badly - HurricaneDitka has staked his reputation on it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20119 "2018-05-08T18:56:13Z")
Wait! Listen… Do you hear that??.. For the past 45 minutes or so, nobody has even mentioned the Mueller investigation or the porn star. Mission Accomplished!!! …ya useless fat orange bastard. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20120 "2018-05-08T19:04:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It won’t end badly - HurricaneDitka has staked his reputation on it. That doesn’t mean he likes Trump, necessarily. Perhaps having a nuclear armed Iran is just one of those policy things that **HD** happens to _like_ when it comes to this administration. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20121 "2018-05-08T19:28:21Z")
I just found [this podcast](https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/trumpinc/about), very interesting. > [@](#): > > **Trump, Inc.** > He’s the president, yet we’re still trying to answer basic questions about how his business works: What deals are happening, who they’re happening with, and if the president and his family are keeping their promise to separate the Trump Organization from the Trump White House. Trump Inc. is a joint reporting project from WNYC Studios and ProPublica that digs deep into those questions. We’ll be laying out what we know, what we don’t, and how you can help us fill in the gaps. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20122 "2018-05-08T20:34:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Or have her work “moose and squirrel” into every sentence. “Moose and squirrel” is good, but any mention of “fearless leader” is too ridiculous to contemplate. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > To my understanding, there are three main motivators: > > 1. In exchange for agreement to abide by the JCPOA, Iran’s sanctions will be less oppressive > 2. Seven to 15 years from now (it varies), Iran will be (ostensibly) free to resume their nuclear program > 3. Because sanctions on Iran have been reduced as part of the JCPOA, Iran has more financial and operational freedom to continue to fund/meddle in the M.E. (i.e. Syria, Yemen, etc…) Both the U.S. and Iran got what they wanted from the deal. Iran got relief from economic sanctions, and the U.S. got Iran’s agreement (backed up with inspections) to roll back their nuclear weapons program. That’s why all the criticisms about how “they can start building bombs again in ten years” made no sense to me. We could resume sanctions in ten years. We’d have the same leverage to negotiate a new in ten years that we have now. The U.S. didn’t give up anything permanent, either. So what does Trump think we get from backing out of the deal? Trump can single-handedly withdraw the U.S. from the deal, but can he single-handedly reimpose economic sanctions on Iran? The first is no good without the second. It’s no use dropping the deal and removing Iran’s obligations to the U.S. without also restoring the U.S. to the same bargaining position we had before. And the U.S. isn’t the only signatory to the deal with Iran. Suppose the deal continues just fine with France, Germany, et al. What does Trump do then? Even if he could reimpose sanctions, why? If Iran is already living up to its obligations, what further concession is he hoping to get out of them? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20123 "2018-05-08T20:47:14Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Both the U.S. and Iran got what they wanted from the deal. Iran got relief from economic sanctions, and the U.S. got Iran’s agreement (backed up with inspections) to roll back their nuclear weapons program. That’s why all the criticisms about how “they can start building bombs again in ten years” made no sense to me. We could resume sanctions in ten years. We’d have the same leverage to negotiate a new in ten years that we have now. The U.S. didn’t give up anything permanent, either. > > So what does Trump think we get from backing out of the deal? Trump can single-handedly withdraw the U.S. from the deal, but can he single-handedly reimpose economic sanctions on Iran? The first is no good without the second. It’s no use dropping the deal and removing Iran’s obligations to the U.S. without also restoring the U.S. to the same bargaining position we had before. > > And the U.S. isn’t the only signatory to the deal with Iran. Suppose the deal continues just fine with France, Germany, et al. What does Trump do then? Even if he could reimpose sanctions, why? If Iran is already living up to its obligations, what further concession is he hoping to get out of them? It’s not what Trump gets out of this directly. It’s what certain of his advisors get, not to mention the MIC. When Trump says enough times that Iran has broken the agreement, his base will believe it. Which allows him to justify actually starting the war with Iran that The Mustache Of Death, Trump’s buddy Bibi and some of his other advisors have wanted since before 9/11. The whole death of the agreement is planned so they can attack Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/20124 "2018-05-08T20:49:33Z")
It’s like you guys think it’s anything more than, “Look at the Obama thing I undid!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1005) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070.md?page=1007)